Any news on the APA/ AA negotiations?

TimeOff

Member
Sep 17, 2002
43
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I know that Negotiations resumed yesterday(1/7/03) but I was wondering if anything has been said or any progress has been made. Especially on the ASM CAP!
 

Busdrvr

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,217
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[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 4:24:24 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

Strike that!

Meant to ask...how much more will UA pilots make compared to AA pilots after the 29% cut?
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[/blockquote]

To put it bluntly, the F/A is simply incorrect. Carty made that statement concerning the previous 18% paycut the pilots were going to take. The new numbers put the pilots at UAL well below AMR's CURRENT rates. Keep in mind AMR's APA rejected an offer of payrates HIGHER than UAL and DAL's about 18 months ago, and the current expired AMR pilot contract was not real popular even when it passed (strike and PEB). Unfortunately, UAL's contract will be used against the AMR pilot group. Sorry.
 

flyhigh

Veteran
Jan 4, 2003
657
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Yes, let's compare to UA...that makes perfect sense. They're bankrupt...AA should be too! Damnit!

How about bringing the AA pilot cost to WN pilot cost (all on a unit basis), in exchange for incentive programs similar to WN's? Try comparing yourselves to a resonable measuring stick!
 
[blockquote]
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On 1/9/2003 1:11:35 PM Winglet wrote:

"The new numbers put the pilots at UAL well below AMR's CURRENT rates."

Ok, if that's the case, let's see some authoratative numbers with references . . . . . . .
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Give it time. I suspect if it were still higher than AMR's current rates, someone would have already said so.
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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"The new numbers put the pilots at UAL well below AMR's CURRENT rates."

Ok, if that's the case, let's see some authoratative numbers with references . . . . . . .
 

Busdrvr

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,217
0
[blockquote]
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On 1/9/2003 1:11:35 PM Winglet wrote:



"The new numbers put the pilots at UAL well below AMR's CURRENT rates."

Ok, if that's the case, let's see some authoratative numbers with references . . . . . . .
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[/blockquote]


No way! Kit Darby at Air Inc will gladly sell you the info! And he's a UAL pilot, so I don't wan to cut into ANY of his other income (we all need it!!)
 

Guest
I bet the AA pilots are kicking themselves for turning down the lump sum no questions asked hunk of cash in exchange for baseball style negotiations. They said no thinking they would be able to get UA Pay scale. Well fellas times have changed. Now it is time to slum it.

Join the rest of the non rich work force.
 

luv2fly

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
1,187
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www.usaviation.com
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On 1/13/2003 3:51:52 PM 767jetz wrote:

My advice to APA is to go to the table with Delta's pay rates, and don't even mention UA.
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Our rates here at DL will most likely not hold for long. Better get what you can fast.
 

767jetz

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,286
2,779
[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 4:15:51 PM FA Mikey wrote:

What will be interesting to see is, AA's response to UALs pilots 29% pay cut. Even with that cut, UAL pilots make more than AA pilots.
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I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I do remember comparing our rates to all the other majoprs during our C2K negotiations. AA was no where near 30% below us after our new contract. This 29% cut puts us below just about every major except USAir and maybe Continental. And Continental has a much different pay system than the rest, so that's still not a good comparison.

My advice to APA is to go to the table with Delta's pay rates, and don't even mention UA.
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 5:24:28 PM Busdrvr wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 4:24:24 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

Strike that!

Meant to ask...how much more will UA pilots make compared to AA pilots after the 29% cut?
----------------
[/blockquote]

To put it bluntly, the F/A is simply incorrect. Carty made that statement concerning the previous 18% paycut the pilots were going to take. The new numbers put the pilots at UAL well below AMR's CURRENT rates. Keep in mind AMR's APA rejected an offer of payrates HIGHER than UAL and DAL's about 18 months ago, and the current expired AMR pilot contract was not real popular even when it passed (strike and PEB). Unfortunately, UAL's contract will be used against the AMR pilot group. Sorry.
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[/blockquote]

I dont think that the APA would appreciate being called "AMR's APA". The APA is an independant Union that does a good job representing its members (although hundreds of former ALPA members from TWA may disagree, many of them have refused to join the APA, now they are non-union, shows how strong their unionism is). If you are an ALPA member perhaps you could enlighten us to why ALPA reportedly has vetoed the APA's attempts to join the AFL-CIO? Is Duane Worth intent on expanding his own empire or promoting more solidarity within your craft? Or does he feel that solidarity can only be acheived by the APA's submission to him? I beleive that the 1997 APA negotiations were sabotaged by ALPA who wanted to rub it in the APA's face that they did not have as much political clout as they had due to affiliation. It seems that empire building is more important to the ALPA than the craft.(After all doesnt ALPA represent some of the lowest paid Union pilots in the industry?) If the AFL-CIO can have dozens of other overlapping unions then why cant they have two pilots unions? Hell, the AFL-CIO even welcomed in a new Air Traffic Controllers union, the replacement for PATCO, (ALPA helped kill PATCO, so much for offering their fellow AFL-CIO members support). Maybe if the ALPA welcomed the APA it could facilitate better relations and lead to a merger between the two unions. After meeting some ALPA reps and some APA reps I must say that I was more impressed with the caliber of the APA reps. Then again, maybe that veto was a blessing.

I wish my coworkers who are APA members the best of luck in their negotiations. You guys are the best in the industry and you deserve the best pay.
 

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