APA Asks Congress To Block AA/BA ATI

[eolesen]

If the APA contract really prohibited ATI, as was claimed by several other posters last month, why is APA asking Congress for help?.....

Allied Pilots Association Members Voice Concerns about American Airlines' Antitrust, Joint Venture Applications
Last update: 1:49 p.m. EDT Oct. 29, 2008

FORT WORTH, Texas, Oct 29, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- The Allied Pilots Association (APA), certified collective bargaining agent for the 12,000 pilots of American Airlines, asked its members beginning last week to contact lawmakers on Capitol Hill to echo the union's concerns about American Airlines' joint venture plans and related application for antitrust immunity. In response to the request APA e-mailed to its members, well over half of the airline's active pilots have already responded by sending messages to their U.S. representatives.

American Airlines, British Airways, Iberia, Finnair and Royal Jordanian recently filed an application for worldwide antitrust immunity and have been seeking rapid approval of their application. American Airlines also recently announced it had reached a "joint business agreement" with British Airways and Iberia.
APA has emphasized the need for lawmakers and regulators to conduct a full examination of related national security, competitiveness and outsourcing issues associated with American Airlines' plans.

"The federal government depends upon U.S. airlines to carry troops and supplies in wartime as the nation's Civil Reserve Air Fleet," said APA President Captain Lloyd Hill. "Are we comfortable having foreign-flagged aircraft ferry our troops in wartime?"

Hill questioned whether granting American Airlines the ability to enter into a "virtual merger" with non-U.S. carriers would conflict with Congress' limits on foreign ownership and control. He also emphasized the need to understand how the various nations' different labor laws would be reconciled.

"The unintended negative consequences we are experiencing from the relaxation of financial market regulations serve as a potent reminder of the need to undertake thorough due diligence where complex deals like this are concerned," Hill said.

He also reiterated the union's job security concerns.

"Capacity-sharing arrangements such as what American Airlines is seeking to enter into are actually a form of industry consolidation, potentially resulting in yet more hard-working Americans' jobs being eliminated," Hill said.

In addition, Hill cited contractual limitations on American Airlines' ability to proceed with its plans.

"We have two ongoing arbitration proceedings that directly relate to the feasibility of these deals," Hill said.

Founded in 1963, the Allied Pilots Association--the largest independent pilot union in the U.S.--is headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas. APA represents the 12,000 pilots of American Airlines, including 1,969 pilots on furlough. The furloughs began shortly after the September 11, 2001 attacks. Also, several hundred American Airlines pilots are on full-time military leave of absence serving in the armed forces. The union's Web site address is www.alliedpilots.org. American Airlines is the nation's largest passenger carrier and fifth-largest cargo carrier.

SOURCE: Allied Pilots Association

Re: the underlined portion... The ATI deals already in place for UA, NW, DL, and CO didn't stop those four carriers from carrying soldiers on CRAF and AMC charters, and NW has been one of the largest players in the AMC space.

Those are cost-plus type charters, and I have little doubt AA would cancel scheduled flying in order to fund aircraft and crews for AMC business. At one point, there were three 777's and a 763 carved out of the schedule to do nothing except AMC charters. Given that opportunity again, AA'd be foolish to pass that along to IB or BA.

So, either Hill is an absolute idiot, or just a fear-mongering xenophobic meglomaniac.

Xenophobic Lloyd might also be missing the fact that the British happen to be our strongest allies, but that's a moot point since nobody is coming close to allowing IB or BA to fly our troops anywhere....

 

[FWAAA]

Excellent point. If the proposed arrangement so clearly violates the scope clause (as was so eloquently, albeit circularly, argued here recently) then why the need to involve Congress?

Even better is Idiot Hill's implication that antitrust immunity somehow conflicts with the foreign ownership limitations. What a great way to slap Congress - ask them for a favour by pointing out their past failures on nearly identical arrangements. If the AA/BA/IB deal conflicts with the foreign ownership limits, then so do the other alliance antitrust immunity deals. And one of them has been in effect for 15 years.

Wonder why Hill thought that airing some of the dirty laundry was such a wise move? He left out one tidbit in this press release, however; the APA's demand for payraises of greater than 50%. Since it's obvious that the concerns listed in this press release would magically evaporate if AA agreed to the raises, it raises questions of honesty.

 

[TWU informer]

I think the two of you should have a management slanted conversation between yoursleves on this matter. :blink:

 

[eolesen]

Good idea. At least there wouldn't be any of the "can't argue the topic, so go after the poster" type crap which is pretty much the norm for threads initiated by disgruntled TWU members...

 

[TWU informer]

Good idea. At least there wouldn't be any of the "can't argue the topic, so go after the poster" type crap which is pretty much the norm for threads initiated by disgruntled TWU members...

I think I "pushed a button" here. I wonder why.

 

[tfc767]

I think I "pushed a button" here. I wonder why.

Nah... you're just dealing with "PUPpy Love!!!"

 

[Ralph]

Stick to the topic. Any further comments regarding a member will result in time off. Period. No further discussion. You can disagree with a post by posting your disagreement. Attacking the poster will not be permitted. Some of you have been warned before. There will be no further warning.

 

[TWU informer]

sniffle, sniffle, ok I will take my opinions and go home then.

I don't have any arguements against the point that the APA scope must be lacking or congressional help would not be needed.

I do have some opinions about these forums and how inconsistent the moderators are here. But surely if I expressed them I would be taken to the wood shed. Oh well, I can handle some time off to make my point on the twins here so do whatever you got to do!

 

[frontline]

Old Captain Lloyd is just tossing out whatever runs through his head as a reason to oppose this deal. Looks like opposition for opposition's sake! He is so far off in la-la land with his proposals and accusations that I can't take anything he says seriously.

If I were a pilot I'd be pretty steamed that this guy is out there causing much fuss about nothing while I'm working under an old, concessionary contract.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I do have some opinions about these forums and how inconsistent the moderators are here. But surely if I expressed them I would be taken to the wood shed. Oh well, I can handle some time off to make my point on the twins here so do whatever you got to do!

Better watch it they mean business
Poltically correct and no adjectives allowed

 

[eolesen]

Imagine that... expecting people to act like grown-ups... trying to keep discussion on point....

Why it should take a moderator to do that is beyond me, but if they keep it up, this site might even be worth checking out more than once or twice a week.


With DL/NW finally being approved, and BD/LH looking to be a done deal as far as the EU goes, I see very little chance of opposition to AA/BA.

Even Virgin, who has been the loudest complainer over LHR, seems to have a possible role in the BD/LH merger. LH has supposedly expressed some interest in buying out SQ's minority ownership in VS, which they'd need to do in order to merge commercially with someone like QF.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Imagine that... expecting people to act like grown-ups... trying to keep discussion on point....

Why it should take a moderator to do that is beyond me, but if they keep it up, this site might even be worth checking out more than once or twice a week.

There are many things beyond you...
And with 3849 posts I'd say your good for more than twice a week

 

[TWU informer]

There are many things beyond you...
And with 3849 posts I'd say your good for more than twice a week

What is more comical is what pushed his buttons to begin with.

I mean WTF, the site already requires multiple alias' for it to work as it is, and now he threatens to cut us off from his, Oh God please not that!

The original post was nothing more than a trolling post to begin with and then backed-up by the twin. Then when someone makes a subtle attempt to point that out, the moderator is contacted and threatens woodshed for those responsilble.

 

[CubsFanJohn]

The Incompitance of the APA here is making me laugh!

 

[eolesen]

What is more comical is what pushed his buttons to begin with.

I mean WTF, the site already requires multiple alias' for it to work as it is, and now he threatens to cut us off from his, Oh God please not that!

The original post was nothing more than a trolling post to begin with and then backed-up by the twin. Then when someone makes a subtle attempt to point that out, the moderator is contacted and threatens woodshed for those responsilble.

Gee, why not be a man and just accuse me of being FWAAA?

Pretty pathetic insinuation, coming from the king of aliases -- AMFA Dave. Oops, I mean Decision 2004. Or is it RV4? No, this year it's TWU Informer...