APFA Constitutional Amendments

[jimntx]

Voting Methods - Resolution Number 4
This cost-saving proposal will bring secure, modern, standardized, and efficient electronic voting to our
membership. The process will meet all dictates of Title IV of the LMRDA and Department of Labor
requirements and will bring APFA's voting methods in line with the National Mediation Board and other labor unions such as AFA-CWA, ALPA, IPA, NPA, and SWAPA, just to name a few. The experienced third
party vendor APFA would likely use is the one that has conducted elections for the unions listed above and the NMB. The Constitution currently allows for a minimum of seven (7) members to serve on the National Ballot Committee. This change reduces that number to no fewer than four (4) members to serve on
the NBC.
Board Vote on Resolution: 18 Yes 0 No

Is this the same "experienced 3rd party" that would allow you to change your NO vote on the concessions to a Yes, but not vice versa? Also, I could not find out how the members of the NBC are selected. I couldn't find a copy of the current constitution on the APFA website. I have a feeling that they are appointed by the President and/or BOD. Right? This would be concentrating power into the hands of fewer and fewer people. My Vote: NO

Future Negotiating Committees - Resolution Number 5
This proposed change brings a new and more efficient structure for future negotiating committees. This
proposal will reduce future negotiating teams from twelve (12) to six (6) members, plus the APFA
President. The proposal is for the team to consist of two members elected by the membership (one Domestic
and one International), two members appointed by the Board of Directors (one Domestic and one
International, and two members appointed by the President, (one Domestic and one International).
Board Vote on Resolution 18 Yes 0 No

So, the membership gets to elect 1/3 of the Negotiating Committee, and the BOD and the President get to appoint the other 2/3--specifically, the President by force of his/her appointment rights would control 1 vote less than a majority of the negotiating committee, and would only have to win over 1 more member to have total control of the negotiations. See note above about concentration of power in the hands of a select few. My Vote: NO

Membership status non-Flight Attendant positions- Resolution Number 6
This proposal brings changes to the status of those Flight Attendants who choose to take a paid
management position or non-Flight Attendant position at AA. Currently, these individuals who have become
members of management still retain the right to their membership and therefore have access to Union
meetings and information intended for Flight Attendants. Under this proposal, those individuals will
lose their APFA membership. If they return to the position of Flight Attendant, they may rejoin the Union
subject to the re-initiation fee.
Board Vote on Resolution 18 Yes 0 No

Talk about your non-issues! Do we have specific evidence that former f/as in management are spying on our meetings? Under the law, aren't all meetings of the union and/or the BOD supposed to be public unless specifically declared as confidential in nature--such as union employee disciplinary actions, etc? My Vote: Motion dies for lack of interest.

Monthly dues amount - Resolution 7
Under this resolution, monthly dues will be set at an amount equal to the hourly Domestic pay rate at year 12, which currently is $42.65. This figure is less than dues at most other unions and would mean currently only an increase of $1.65 per month (less than $20.00 per year) over today's dues amount. Tagging the dues amount to a pay step is a smart way to effectively respond to APFA's cost of doing business. We believe this method of calculating dues will eliminate the need for any future dues referendums. When the APFA membership hourly rates change, your monthly dues will be tied to the established pay step.
Twenty-five (25%) percent of any dues increases under this proposal shall be placed in a
negotiations-related fund.
Board Vote on Resolution: 15 Yes 3 No

Since I see very little effort coming out of Useless Blvd that affects/benefits me, I have to wonder what the money is being spent on. This is just a way of getting future dues increases without having to depend upon those fussy f/as who vote no on dues increases because they feel they are getting nothing in return for the dues they are currently paying. And, since I would have to work until I'm almost 70 to have a dues payment that was less than 1 hour's pay (as 75+% of the current membership have)...My Vote: NO.

Monthly dues obligation: - Resolution 8
This proposal expands the dues obligation to all Flight Attendants in any unpaid status. APFA continues its
work on your behalf even if you aren't flying. Simply put, to maintain your union rights and privileges, you
need to pay dues. The categories of unpaid status are:
Furlough by Employer
Approved military leave or absence
Approved Hardships
Unpaid Sick
Suspension by Employer
Termination by Employer
Upon returning to work, members may set up a
payment plan to satisfy their obligation for back dues.
Board Vote on Resolution 16 Yes 2 No.

"Simply put," let's disenfranchise the former TW f/as who are on furlough. They simply refuse to vote the way we want them to vote. Besides, they seem to think that a union's job is save jobs first, THEN protect the perks of the super senior f/as--such as, never having to fly. My Vote: NO.
(Can I vote again? NO!)

P.S. Anyone have a clue what Resolutions 1-3 were, and why they were not included on the ballot?

 

[eolesen]

Electronic voting can work just fine when it's not rushed... If it's good enough for signing up for benefits and filing your taxes, why shouldn't it be used for voting?

 

[jimntx]

Oh, I don't have a problem with electronic voting. I was an early advocate of the electronic voting machines here in Texas. What I have a problem with is the way APFA conducted the last electronic voting when they didn't get their way on the first pass on the RPA. Re-opening the voting and allowing a vote change as long as you are changing from No to Yes, but not if you want to change your vote from Yes to No is not my idea of a democratic, fair, and impartial process.

 

[Bob Owens]

Oh, I don't have a problem with electronic voting. I was an early advocate of the electronic voting machines here in Texas. What I have a problem with is the way APFA conducted the last electronic voting when they didn't get their way on the first pass on the RPA. Re-opening the voting and allowing a vote change as long as you are changing from No to Yes, but not if you want to change your vote from Yes to No is not my idea of a democratic, fair, and impartial process.

I would avoid AAA, They screw up votes all the time. They screwed up the 2003 vote for the concessions and they even screwed up our Local Elections. We wont use them anymore. By the way Anne McNamara was on the Board.

 

[L1011Ret]

Resolution #8 is a real doozy. A few years ago APFA declared TWA STL/SLT furloughees were not entitled to representation because they were not employees. They also stated that TWA F/As were not entitled to their TWA seniority in STL because they were not continuously employed by AA while on furlough. Now they say they need to pay dues to vote and have representation. Of course this is a total change as they used to vote without paying dues while on furlough but they received no services while on furlough and were told that since they were not employed by AA they were not entitled to representation while on furlough. APFA has never made any great efforts to save furloughed jobs. The decent efforts have come from AA. What a disgusting union, without conscience or principle.

 

[Bob Owens]

APFA has never made any great efforts to save furloughed jobs. The decent efforts have come from AA. What a disgusting union, without conscience or principle.

I suppose when the company increases the number of hours flight attendants fly they are doing it to save furloughed jobs?

Last I heard it was the company that determined how many and when they were going to furlough, not the union.

Remember the company chose to buy TWA then dismantle it.

 

[L1011Ret]

I suppose when the company increases the number of hours flight attendants fly they are doing it to save furloughed jobs?

Last I heard it was the company that determined how many and when they were going to furlough, not the union.

Remember the company chose to buy TWA then dismantle it.

I am basing that assessment on actual behaviors of Flight Attendant supervisors at the LGA base who made rather valliant efforts to find creative ways to decrease furloughs. That along with APFA's failure to offer any solutions to assist in the reduction of F/As impacted by furlough is the cause for my post. In other words, AA determines its need for furloughs but APFA and AA determine how that will occur. You are way off base as usual knowing little about this issue.

 

[Skymess]

I am basing that assessment on actual behaviors of Flight Attendant supervisors at the LGA base who made rather valliant efforts to find creative ways to decrease furloughs. That along with APFA's failure to offer any solutions to assist in the reduction of F/As impacted by furlough is the cause for my post. In other words, AA determines its need for furloughs but APFA and AA determine how that will occur. You are way off base as usual knowing little about this issue.

APFA can only do so much if the company is unwilling to cooperate.

AA refuses to pay medical for furloughed flight attendants.

APFA went around to the unemployment offices at all bases and asked if they would pay unemployment benefits to FAs who took a leave to save other's jobs. Texas was an unequivocal NO, other states couldn't/wouldn't give definitive answers.

Even IF your state would allow you to collect unemployment, that would be dependent on AA not contesting your unemployment claim.

Bob is right on the money. The APFA didn't furlough anyone. They are trying to save jobs and they can only do so much. But don't let me interrupt your tireless, or tiresome, APFA rantings. You're not even a flight attendant so what do YOU know? The fact that your wife is one doesn't count. My father is a doctor, does that qualify me to dispense medical advice? Would it if I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night? You were a pilot. The only thing FAs and pilots have in common is they fly on an airplane together and airline management never wants to give either work group a raise.

 

[L1011Ret]

APFA can only do so much if the company is unwilling to cooperate.

AA refuses to pay medical for furloughed flight attendants.

APFA went around to the unemployment offices at all bases and asked if they would pay unemployment benefits to FAs who took a leave to save other's jobs. Texas was an unequivocal NO, other states couldn't/wouldn't give definitive answers.

Even IF your state would allow you to collect unemployment, that would be dependent on AA not contesting your unemployment claim.

Bob is right on the money. The APFA didn't furlough anyone. They are trying to save jobs and they can only do so much. But don't let me interrupt your tireless, or tiresome, APFA rantings. You're not even a flight attendant so what do YOU know? The fact that your wife is one doesn't count. My father is a doctor, does that qualify me to dispense medical advice? Would it if I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night? You were a pilot. The only thing FAs and pilots have in common is they fly on an airplane together and airline management never wants to give either work group a raise.

Bob does not know anything about this other than AA determines manpower requirements. He has not read the letters sent out by AA and APFA. he has not read APFA or AA email messages about this. He has not read what L. Curtis has said about this. It is irrelevant whether AA bought TWA to dismantle it. As for APFA as my post above makes clear they are going to try to get furloughed members to pay the same dues as active members when the furloughed are not even employed by AA and furloughed members are not entitled to any representation by prior APFA decisions. There are a lot of folks unhappy about this, I hope bthey press charges at the NMB or criminal charges if possible.

 

[Ralph]

Ladies and Gentlemen, there are a number of issues at stake here. Please do not let this devolve into another AA vs. TWA argument. Thank you. Have a good Thanksgiving.

 

[butchord45]

Ladies and Gentlemen, there are a number of issues at stake here. Please do not let this devolve into another AA vs. TWA argument. Thank you. Have a good Thanksgiving.

These resolutions are so jacked up!!!!

Now I know why they don't want us to know what is going on in negotiations.

Wasn't expecting much .....after seeing this ....not expecting anything at all

Butch

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Not a TWA issue at all. This will effect the next group who could be possibly furloughed. This is nothing but a Poll Tax which will be challenged at the NMB and DOL level.

 

[Skymess]

Not a TWA issue at all. This will effect the next group who could be possibly furloughed. This is nothing but a Poll Tax which will be challenged at the NMB and DOL level.

Good luck challenging it. If you are on a leave of absense you must pay dues in order to vote. Currently, furloughs may vote without having to pay dues. How is that right?

If you don't want to vote, don't pay. If you don't pay monthly while furloughed you're in for a large payment if you get called back after a significant length of time.

I don't think furloughs should be voting at all so this, to me, is at least a step in the right direction.

 

[Skymess]

Voting Methods - Resolution Number 4
This cost-saving proposal will bring secure, modern, standardized, and efficient electronic voting to our
membership.
the NBC.
Board Vote on Resolution: 18 Yes 0 No

Is this the same "experienced 3rd party" that would allow you to change your NO vote on the concessions to a Yes, but not vice versa? Also, I could not find out how the members of the NBC are selected. I couldn't find a copy of the current constitution on the APFA website. I have a feeling that they are appointed by the President and/or BOD. Right? This would be concentrating power into the hands of fewer and fewer people. My Vote: NO

No for me.

Future Negotiating Committees - Resolution Number 5
This proposed change brings a new and more efficient structure for future negotiating committees. This
proposal will reduce future negotiating teams from twelve (12) to six (6) members, plus the APFA
President.
My Vote: NO

My vote Yes.

Membership status non-Flight Attendant positions- Resolution Number 6
This proposal brings changes to the status of those Flight Attendants who choose to take a paid
management position or non-Flight Attendant position at AA. Under this proposal, those individuals will
lose their APFA membership. If they return to the position of Flight Attendant, they may rejoin the Union
subject to the re-initiation fee.
Board Vote on Resolution 18 Yes 0 No

My Vote: Motion dies for lack of interest.

My Vote: Yes

Monthly dues amount - Resolution 7
Under this resolution, monthly dues will be set at an amount equal to the hourly Domestic pay rate at year 12, which currently is $42.65. This figure is less than dues at most other unions and would mean currently only an increase of $1.65 per month Board Vote on Resolution: 15 Yes 3 No

My Vote: NO.

No.

Monthly dues obligation: - Resolution 8
This proposal expands the dues obligation to all Flight Attendants in any unpaid status. APFA continues its
work on your behalf even if you aren't flying. Simply put, to maintain your union rights and privileges, you
need to pay dues. The categories of unpaid status are:
Furlough by Employer
Approved military leave or absence
Approved Hardships
Unpaid Sick
Suspension by Employer
Termination by Employer
Upon returning to work, members may set up a
payment plan to satisfy their obligation for back dues.
Board Vote on Resolution 16 Yes 2 No.

"Simply put," let's disenfranchise the former TW f/as who are on furlough. They simply refuse to vote the way we want them to vote. Besides, they seem to think that a union's job is save jobs first, THEN protect the perks of the super senior f/as--such as, never having to fly. My Vote: NO.
(Can I vote again? NO!)

Yes.

 

[L1011Ret]

Ladies and Gentlemen, there are a number of issues at stake here. Please do not let this devolve into another AA vs. TWA argument. Thank you. Have a good Thanksgiving.

It should not as junior AA people are as upset about this as TWAers.