APFA says lets safe some jobs

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FA Mikey

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SENT VIA FACSIMILE August 30, 2002
August 30, 2002
Ms. Lorraine Mase-Hecker, Director
Employee Policy and Relations
American Airlines
P.O. Box 619616, MD 5235
Dallas/Fort Worth Airport, Texas 75261-9616
Dear Lorraine:
I am writing to once again urge the Company to proffer AA training to as many ISL flight attendants as possible. This is especially important at this time in light of the Company’s announced intention to reduce TWA-LLC flying.
It has been brought to my attention that certain Company managerial representatives have suggested (although not to me) that training on AA equipment of TWA-LLC flight attendants will “save jobs.” While it is far from clear that such training will “save jobs,” the Company’s suggestion of such a consequence provides further reason to support my outstanding request that the Company proffer AA training to ISL flight attendants as promptly as possible.
I am available to meet with you next week to further pursue this request and to continue APFA’s efforts to reduce to the maximum extent possible, and ideally to eliminate entirely, the furlough of American and TWA-LLC flight attendants. Please contact me so that we can arrange a mutually convenient time to meet.
Sincerely,
John Ward
 
Aug 20, 2002
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Mikey;
Happy Labor Day !!

You guys/gals(APFA) are EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to have a prez. like John Ward.(I know that you know it.)

Listen, Any chance we could "trade" you Jim Little, and 10 TWU V/P's(to be named later) for JW ???????
[:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:]

NH/BB's
 
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FA Mikey

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Jim Little has been in office what, A million years or so. Time to do some house cleaning. At APFA as well. We are not lucky to have John Ward and his group. He is lucky to have been elected.

He has yet to do anything in my book to warrant any accolades
 

bicaal

Member
Sep 4, 2002
43
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First TWA f/as file suit against APFA and now AMR f/as threaten to file suit.

I find it surprising that you are holding on to the position that the integration date decision is "fair and sound". It is neither. As far as fair, there are approx. 900 Union Paying AA flight Attendants that were displaced by the April 10, 2001 decision. TWA was given a date that is different with other mergers (Reno Air), as well as any other American Airlines Employee. If you were a Ten Year Eagle F/A and transferred to AA, you would loose all your seniority and your new seniority date would be the day after graduating training, as is the case with all other new hires. It was also the way the Reno Air merger was done.

TWA is a separate airline owned and operated by AMR Corp, just like Eagle, but those employees were given preferential treatment over APFA Dues Paying Members. It will be over a year and a half AFTER the date of seniority that the first TWA F/A will go through AA training. Is that fair? The TWA F/A's started paying dues on May 1, 2002, over one year after their seniority date. A direct conflict with the rules of membership stated in our contract. Is that fair? 900 American Airlines hired, trained and working flight attendants however, while paying dues find ourselves on furlough, or just receiving furlough letters for the second time. Is this fair? Your whole argument shows that the decision of the integration date was made based on the minimizing complaints and lawsuits from TWA F/A's. It is important for the members to understand this.

While you are telling how fair and contractually fair this whole agreement is, you neglect to mention those who paid the price. We have worked one and a half years for this company and were forced to pay dues to the APFA only to be mis-represented to save on lawsuits. Well, I hope the members understand as we are left with no other choice but to begin lawsuit of our own. We are asking for what we deserve, our seniority. If the Union if faced with lawsuits from TWA it only has itself to blame. I can name many times we were given false information by Union representatives, as can all of my class mates. TWA is not to blame for fighting the Union, in fact they are to be commended for sticking up for what they believe in. When told that in a situation such as a merger there is no way both sides can be satisfied, my reply is that both sides shouldn't have been promised the same things.

I have spent countless hours on the phone with the Union as well as several others in the same situation. We are simply asking questions in a calm and reasonable way, and documenting all our answers. While I certainly believe that the people we speak to are sincere, they are not consist ant. There are HUGE holes in the agreement, and when asked, Union Representatives in Dallas have admitted they were giving us conflicting facts.

So as you are responding in a condescending tone to criticism, keep in mind that the criticism is well founded and deserved.

And by the way, how on earth can you justify changing the agreement, even if it is only 10 little words, to meet your standards of fair? I propose that we ask the Dues Paying Members of this Union what they think is fair, not have to depend on the decision of a few extremely high paid individuals who have lost touch with what is fair or not to those of us who $40 a month is a lot of money to pay for the sole purpose of paying them.
 

bicaal

Member
Sep 4, 2002
43
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I also question if either of these 2 groups win their case, if AMR couldn't make a compelling argument that damages (back wages) should be levied against the union. APFA is responsible for the seniority integration agreement. If the courts rule that TWA f/as were furloughed out of seniority order and back wages are levied against APFA, couldn't this bankrupt the union, or would they just raise the dues again?
 

twaokc

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Aug 19, 2002
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FAMikey
How are you so sure that AFPA and AA's agreement will hold up in court??? The IAM should have been invited to this railroading, but were not. WHY?
 
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FA Mikey

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BICAAL:I also question if either of these 2 groups win their case, if AMR couldn't make a compelling argument that damages (back wages) should be levied against the union. APFA is responsible for the seniority integration agreement. If the courts rule that TWA f/as were furloughed out of seniority order and back wages are levied against APFA, couldn't this bankrupt the union, or would they just raise the dues again?
FA Mikey: Each case is ridiculous. How do you figure APFA is soley responcible for backwages, and for the entire seniority agreement. It is an agreed apon document for seniority intergration from both sides. APFA its lawyers and advisers as well as AA and its attorneys. Before they signed, both sides made sure they had an agreement that would hold up in any court.
 
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FA Mikey

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WHY is right. APFA negotiates with AA. Not other carriers and there unions. Our only goal is the protection of our members. IAM nor any other TW person was a member. In fact you were all fighting to prolong becoming members.

Had the TW people been members than the out come would have been different.
 
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FA Mikey

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BICAAL:First TWA f/as file suit against APFA and now AMR f/as threaten to file suit.I find it surprising that you are holding on to the position that the integration date decision is fair and sound. It is neither. As far as fair, there are approx. 900 Union Paying AA flight Attendants that were displaced by the April 10, 2001 decision. TWA was given a date that is different with other mergers (Reno Air), as well as any other American Airlines Employee. If you were a Ten Year Eagle F/A and transferred to AA, you would loose all your seniority and your new seniority date would be the day after graduating training, as is the case with all other new hires. It was also the way the Reno Air merger was done.


FA Mikey:One TW was not a merger. You can not compare it as such. Each time we have been brought up to do some seniority agreement it has been a different situation and with different cir***stances. So each time and agreement, will be different than the others.


BICAAL:TWA is a separate airline owned and operated by AMR Corp, just like Eagle, but those employees were given preferential treatment over APFA Dues Paying Members. It will be over a year and a half AFTER the date of seniority that the first TWA F/A will go through AA training. Is that fair? The TWA F/A's started paying dues on May 1, 2002, over one year after their seniority date. A direct conflict with the rules of membership stated in our contract. Is that fair? 900 American Airlines hired, trained and working flight attendants however, while paying dues find ourselves on furlough, or just receiving furlough letters for the second time. Is this fair? Your whole argument shows that the decision of the integration date was made based on the minimizing complaints and lawsuits from TWA F/A's. It is important for the members to understand this.


FA Mikey: Everything you state is covered in the intergration and seniority agreement. TWLLC F/A's were also at the time represented by the IAM. They can not be expected to pay dues or belong to both unions. Until the NMB rules on the single carrier issue. APFA was obligated to work only for its current dues paying members. I am not sure how being on furlough based on seniority is not fair. You will find that seniority was done as D.O.A. That they began paying dues after IAM was relesed as their bargining agent. These are procedures set up by the goverments own rules and laws. I am not aware and since you give no information as to how the seniority agreement was set up to mimimize lawsuits and complaints. As I see, hear and read. It has not well at that.


BICAAL:While you are telling how fair and contractually fair this whole agreement is, you neglect to mention those who paid the price. We have worked one and a half years for this company and were forced to pay dues to the APFA only to be mis-represented to save on lawsuits. Well, I hope the members understand as we are left with no other choice but to begin lawsuit of our own. We are asking for what we deserve, our seniority. If the Union if faced with lawsuits from TWA it only has itself to blame. I can name many times we were given false information by Union representatives, as can all of my class mates. TWA is not to blame for fighting the Union, in fact they are to be commended for sticking up for what they believe in. When told that in a situation such as a merger there is no way both sides can be satisfied, my reply is that both sides shouldn't have been promised the same things.


FA Mikey: Who paid the price? You? Because you are junior? We have all been there and faced the possibility of what could happen. I my first year I faced the threat of a major down sizing. I also kew to get senior I would have to start at some point. How were you misrepresented? What seniority were you denied? If the union is faced with more frivious lawsuits. It has some short sighted self serving junior members to blame. You have names and this false information. Big deal. So what is this information? Is it real or just put here for the added drama. Also there was NO merger. Get off that horse. This was a TW assest acquisition. Two sides were not promised the same things.


BICAAL:I have spent countless hours on the phone with the Union as well as several others in the same situation. We are simply asking questions in a calm and reasonable way, and do***enting all our answers. While I certainly believe that the people we speak to are sincere, they are not consist ant. There are HUGE holes in the agreement, and when asked, Union Representatives in Dallas have admitted they were giving us conflicting facts.

So as you are responding in a condescending tone to criticism, keep in mind that the criticism is well founded and deserved.


FA Mikey: You have filled us up with accusation and inuendo. No facts or anything substantive. All typed in my best condescending tone, I guess.


BICALL:And by the way, how on earth can you justify changing the agreement, even if it is only 10 little words, to meet your standards of fair? I propose that we ask the Dues Paying Members of this Union what they think is fair, not have to depend on the decision of a few extremely high paid individuals who have lost touch with what is fair or not to those of us who $40 a month is a lot of money to pay for the sole purpose of paying them.


FA Mikey: The change is being done to help save jobs as well as aviod a possible conflict with our current CBA. What do you purpose. Spending another 70,000 dollars survey or vote? Those high paid individuals, make the going rate of you and I. How nice you think its so high paying. By the way, your 40 dollars as well as mine go to more than just paying for completion of this seniority agreement. It runs the union and helped get you the pay rates, rules and representation.
 
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