APFA vs. AFA

ContUNITEus

Veteran
May 4, 2011
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I have been reading some of the newsreleases of both APFA and AFA, and I have to say, that it seems that APFA is completely ignoring and sidelining AFA.  If you read what APFA writes, you can definitely see that they want nothing to do with AFA.  APFA wants to run their show with US/AA as if AFA does not exist.   That's how I am reading them.
 
What led to this?   Why does APFA seem so upset with AFA?  I read somewhere something about AFA trying to get a vote for union membership.  Is that true?
 
APFA
FORT WORTH, TEXAS (December 9, 2013)Hundreds of members of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, the union proudly representing the Flight Attendants of American Airlines, were on hand this morning to introduce the new American to the flying public.
 
“Christmas has come early for the APFA,” said union president Laura Glading. “It’s been a long, tough slog, but today our hard work has paid off. The Flight Attendants of the new American are looking forward to building the world’s greatest airline.”
 
In a ceremony at American’s headquarters near DFW, Flight Attendants joined other frontline employees for a special ceremony commemorating the merger with US Airways and the first day of trading for the new American Airlines Group Inc. (ticker symbol AAL) on the NASDAQ. The new American, the world’s largest airline, will offer consumers a third network carrier option to compete with United and Delta.
 
APFA members are also looking forward to receiving their allocation of the new American’s equity. The anticipated value of their share is by far the highest in Flight Attendant history.
 
As a member of the unsecured creditors’ committee during American’s bankruptcy, APFA led the charge in pushing for the merger. After reaching a conditional labor agreement with US Airways, APFA focused on explaining the benefits of the merger plan to the other various creditors and convincing them to support it as well. When the Justice Department challenged the merger with an eleventh-hour antitrust suit, APFA took to Capitol Hill to generate support for the deal.
 
As part of the labor agreement with US Airways, APFA prescribed a clear and direct path to an industry-leading contract. The agreement will soon bring American and US Airways Flight Attendants together at the bargaining table to unite the groups under a joint collective bargaining agreement that reflects the size and competitiveness of the new American. Most importantly, the agreement will allow the new American’s Flight Attendants to avoid the challenges and pitfalls that beset work groups during previous airline mergers.

 
Hmmm... not sure if I missed it but I don't see any mention about US/AWA-AFA flight attendants.
 
 
AFA

Posted On: Dec 09, 2013

 
Washington, DC –The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA (AFA) issued the following statement today by AFA US Airways President Roger Holmin as US Airways grew into the world’s largest airline through its merger with American Airlines.
“Today, we ring the bell to honor our past and celebrate our future. Our history was made by little airlines that could – and did. US Airways Flight Attendants have spent entire careers building unity. And today, we stand up for the opportunities that come with building the world’s largest airline.
“We proudly stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our new American flying partners and we cheer the end of the American bankruptcy. All Flight Attendants and frontline workers at the New American know what it is to sacrifice. There is no doubt it is our turn to experience the benefits of our success.
“Since the announcement of this merger we have met every challenge through unity. We expect to continue as full partners in this merger, in terms of what we bring to its success and the equal share of benefits we receive in recognition of our efforts.
“Completing the financial transaction is a moment of hope and celebration. We congratulate Doug Parker and every employee of our two airlines. And, we encourage management to lead an airline where the front line workers are proud of where we work and who we work with at every level of the airline. That will set us apart and catapult us well above the rest of the industry – only the best for the world’s biggest!
“Flight Attendants are ready. We have done our part and we will redouble our efforts going forward. Our experience shows nearly anything can be done when we stand together.”
 
The Association of Flight Attendants is the world’s largest Flight Attendant union. Focused 100 percent on Flight Attendant issues, AFA has been the leader in advancing the Flight Attendant profession for 68 years. Serving as the voice for Flight Attendants in the workplace, in the aviation industry, in the media and on Capitol Hill, AFA has transformed the Flight Attendant profession by raising wages, benefits and working conditions. US Airways Flight Attendants are 8,500 of the nearly 60,000 Flight Attendants who come together to form AFA, in partnership with the 700,000-member strong Communications Workers of America (CWA), AFL-CIO. Visit us at www.ouramerican.org.
 
 
 
I disagree, I feel that it is AFA-CWA who is acting unreasonable here. Laura Glading has been meeting with US AFA's president Roger Holmin all summer and had an agreement in principle in how to proceed following the closing of the merger which was going to be the key to quickly, effortlessly and amicably unite the two flight attendant groups... then Roger hit the "reset button" (his words, not mine) which really has only served to stir up rancor and now, he has all but guaranteed our integration not going to be easy, nor fast (or very friendly, for that matter).
 
Now there is active carding going on by the AFA-CWA among the AA flight attendants. I really don't see what a representational election can possibly accomplish here other than being a gigantic waste of everyone's time-- or even worse, a very effective way of dividing the flight attendant group at the very moment what we should be united and working together on getting a new contract. The mathematics for AFA-CWA winning simply do not exist, which makes Roger & Co. appear petulant and petty.
 
I understand and empathize with the AFA-CWA leadership-- I'm sure they aren't looking forward to losing out on all that dues money. But going for an all-out money grab by raiding the membership of the APFA is transparently self-preservationist and is not currying themselves any favor among the AA flight attendants, this is for sure.
 
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AdAstraPerAspera said:
I disagree, I feel that it is AFA-CWA who is acting unreasonable here. Laura Glading has been meeting with US AFA's president Roger Holmin all summer and had an agreement in principle in how to proceed following the closing of the merger which was going to be the key to quickly, effortlessly and amicably unite the two flight attendant groups... then Roger hit the "reset button" (his words, not mine) which really has only served to stir up rancor and now, he has all but guaranteed our integration not going to be easy, nor fast (or very friendly, for that matter).
 
Now there is active carding going on by the AFA-CWA among the AA flight attendants. I really don't see what a representational election can possibly accomplish here other than being a gigantic waste of everyone's time-- or even worse, a very effective way of dividing the flight attendant group at the very moment what we should be united and working together on getting a new contract. The mathematics for AFA-CWA winning simply do not exist, which makes Roger & Co. appear petulant and petty.
 
I understand and empathize with the AFA-CWA leadership-- I'm sure they aren't looking forward to losing out on all that dues money. But going for an all-out money grab by raiding the membership of the APFA is transparently self-preservationist and is not currying themselves any favor among the AA flight attendants, this is for sure.
There were AFA organizers in MIA last week.

Josh
 
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737823 said:
There were AFA organizers in MIA last week.

Josh
 
Yep, I got a robocall from the union alerting me to it yesterday. I don't know if they have shown up in New York yet, but they will get a chilly reception here.
 
AdAstraPerAspera said:
 
then Roger hit the "reset button" (his words, not mine) which really has only served to stir up rancor and now, he has all but guaranteed our integration not going to be easy, nor fast (or very friendly, for that matter).
 
 
The way I see it the ball is entirely in APFA's court.  APFA will soon ask for, and probably get, single carrier status as the union on the property.  There will certainly be a carding campaign to force an election (whether the current carding going on will count or have to be done all over again is up in the air, so to speak).  Unless US, plus the 900 or so ex-TWA and the malcontents at AA can carry the election APFA stands to be the union, period.  They don't have to cozy up to AFA.
 
This is what I see happening, not what I want to happen.  The AFA contract is better than the APFA one (I mean the CLA we're now working under) with a couple of exceptions.  APFA would do well to include a couple of US negotiators on the team, but they'll probably feel they don't have to.
 
If an election occurs I'll almost certainly vote for the AFA.

MK
 
The person who gave me an AFA election form was NOT former TWA (despite what Ms. Glading's robocall claimed). It was a native who is quite senior to me. This may not be a slam-dunk for the APFA. Personally, I don't think that the APFA covered itself in glory when they told us the LBFO was the best they could do, then promptly voted themselves a raise so that they would not have to take a pay cut like the rest of us.

And, since I've never gotten any answer from them regarding contractual issues other than "Fly the trip. We can always grieve it later.", I can't say I'm convinced that I would vote for APFA in an election. In the years I've been with AA, all I've seen is one decent contract which almost immediately got modified with concessions.

All of the hoopla about being an independent union also means that in a labor dispute, we have no one on our side. There are advantages to being associated with the AFL-CIO.
 
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jimntx said:
All of the hoopla about being an independent union also means that in a labor dispute, we have no one on our side. There are advantages to being associated with the AFL-CIO.
 
Don't forget higher dues payments and autarchic dues increases associated with the AFL-CIO as well. When I was an AFA-CWA member I remember my dues being increased shortly after they lost all the dues income from the Northwest flight attendants.
 
I wasn't very impressed with the organization of AFA-CWA both nationally and at my former carrier. Unfortunately there are many others from a rainbow of other airlines who have similar antipathy towards AFA.
 
I understand it now from the other side too.  
 
I would recommend though that APFA play a better publicity game as, it seems to my ignorant perception, that AFA is trying better at making it look like they want unity.  Their PR is more geared towards unity, while APFA is just plainly ignoring AFA.  Maybe they are hurt/pissed off by whatever AFA did/tried to do, but to keep a good campaign of your own running positively, you have to acknowledge that the other side exists, and just pretend that you want to work with them, even if, for the time being, you don't.
 
I agree that AFA has nothing to tout about.  They were not better in any way than APFA at negotiating a new contract.  That contract that they caved into, was concessionary. 
 
On the other side, APFA had no choice, it was either sign the LBFO or have the current contract completely thrown out.  Something that AFA had to do also back in the two previous US bankruptcies.
 
So, out of the two unions, considering that I have seen what AFA is capable of doing and what not, I would go with APFA.
 
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Totally agree, and it is apparent that Doug Parker already knows that APFA will be the surviving representative otherwise he wouldn't already be indicating that he'll be negotiating with APFA in word and deed.
 
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ContUNITEus said:
I understand it now from the other side too.  
 
I would recommend though that APFA play a better publicity game as, it seems to my ignorant perception, that AFA is trying better at making it look like they want unity.  Their PR is more geared towards unity, while APFA is just plainly ignoring AFA.  Maybe they are hurt/pissed off by whatever AFA did/tried to do, but to keep a good campaign of your own running positively, you have to acknowledge that the other side exists, and just pretend that you want to work with them, even if, for the time being, you don't.
 
I agree that AFA has nothing to tout about.  They were not better in any way than APFA at negotiating a new contract.  That contract that they caved into, was concessionary. 
 
On the other side, APFA had no choice, it was either sign the LBFO or have the current contract completely thrown out.  Something that AFA had to do also back in the two previous US bankruptcies.
 
So, out of the two unions, considering that I have seen what AFA is capable of doing and what not, I would go with APFA.
What has AFA president Veda Shook said about the matter? CWA president Larry Cohen? The UA F/As I know say matters are not good at the international level and there may be a recall of some officers soon. The AFA is certainly better than the IAM, but many of the MEC/LEC officials are appointed, not elected like APFA. APFA has had its share of drama over the years but most AA F/As feel they align more closely with their interests.

Josh
 
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It's my understanding that APFA is going to merge the US Air F/A's date of hire, one for one.
 
Does AFA have a better offer than that?
 
kirkpatrick said:
then Roger hit the "reset button" (his words, not mine) which really has only served to stir up rancor and now, he has all but guaranteed our integration not going to be easy, nor fast (or very friendly, for that matter).
 
 
The way I see it the ball is entirely in APFA's court.  APFA will soon ask for, and probably get, single carrier status as the union on the property.  There will certainly be a carding campaign to force an election (whether the current carding going on will count or have to be done all over again is up in the air, so to speak).  Unless US, plus the 900 or so ex-TWA and the malcontents at AA can carry the election APFA stands to be the union, period.  They don't have to cozy up to AFA.
 
This is what I see happening, not what I want to happen.  The AFA contract is better than the APFA one (I mean the CLA we're now working under) with a couple of exceptions.  APFA would do well to include a couple of US negotiators on the team, but they'll probably feel they don't have to.
 
If an election occurs I'll almost certainly vote for the AFA.

MK
Just out of curiosity, why do you like the prospect of higher dues? Does the prospect of having the CWA/Verizon workers and the AFA leadership/UA have an ongoing say in your work life really come across as good? I hear people like jimntx complain all the time about things like trip removals and such. Well, like they don't do that at CWA/AFA? Or better yet, if it is such a cake walk, they should run for those positions. I would guess that they would find out quickly that it isn't worth it. The prospect of having AFA on the property is ridiculous. They will never be able to represent us as well as APFA does. Just focus on us and no one else. Also, the APFA was willing to use US negotiators as well and to try and take the best of both contracts. The AFA decided that apparently they don't want that anymore. I feel that this will all fix itself once AFA US wakes up and sees that they very well may end up in the position of losing and then have zero input into the next contract. CWA/AFA is just like ALPA. They have their fingers in too many things and no focus and direction. If they win and I can't wait to hear the complaining about higher dues and how much they get to kick up to the CWA just for the privilege.
 
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And the AFL-CIO is involved too. The NLS CO F/As I know aren't happy with AFA but it's miles better than IAM and LL 2339N and the history of corruption.

Josh
 
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737823 said:
And the AFL-CIO is involved too. The NLS CO F/As I know aren't happy with AFA but it's miles better than IAM and LL 2339N and the history of corruption.

Josh
 
I heard the contract that the former CO flight attendants have is pretty good, but AFA cruised to an easy election win thanks to sheer numbers of UA FAs and the help of a misinformation campaign