April 2003 Load Factor 74.1% vs 74.3% April 2002 EOM
- Thread starter A320 Driver
- Start date
genejockey
Advanced
Bob,
This is the contract language for what it''s worth:
WAR CONTINGENCY: In the event that (a) the U.S. invades Iraq (meaning that the U.S. initiates a sustained aerial bombardment of those parts of Iraq that are not within the current no fly zone or introduces substantial numbers of ground troops into the territory of Iraq), or (B) there is an act of terrorism which in either event has a material adverse impact on commercial aviation, there will be an immediate 5% pay deferral for up to 18 months. The deferral will begin to be repaid starting in the first month following the end of the deferral and will continue to be repaid in as many monthly installments as were covered by the deferral. In the event that US Airways Group reports a pretax profit with respect to any quarter during which the pay deferral is in effect, the deferral will immediately stop and repayment will begin in the next month to continue for the same number of months as were included in the deferral.
This is the contract language for what it''s worth:
WAR CONTINGENCY: In the event that (a) the U.S. invades Iraq (meaning that the U.S. initiates a sustained aerial bombardment of those parts of Iraq that are not within the current no fly zone or introduces substantial numbers of ground troops into the territory of Iraq), or (B) there is an act of terrorism which in either event has a material adverse impact on commercial aviation, there will be an immediate 5% pay deferral for up to 18 months. The deferral will begin to be repaid starting in the first month following the end of the deferral and will continue to be repaid in as many monthly installments as were covered by the deferral. In the event that US Airways Group reports a pretax profit with respect to any quarter during which the pay deferral is in effect, the deferral will immediately stop and repayment will begin in the next month to continue for the same number of months as were included in the deferral.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
"there will be an immediate 5% pay deferral for **UP TO** 18 months."
WHEN IS "ENOUGH" "ENOUGH"? War's OVER!
A320 Driver
GIVE IT BACK!!!!!
WHEN IS "ENOUGH" "ENOUGH"? War's OVER!
A320 Driver
GIVE IT BACK!!!!!
genejockey
Advanced
I knew the load numbers would generate comments about the pay defferal. I will bite my tongue. However, what really concerns me is this company''s cash position. I will be eagerly awaiting the 1Q report. Any word on current cash burn or stability? I have a bad feeling this airline will be flirting with disaster this time next year. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
PITbull
Veteran
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On 5/1/2003 9:42:12 AM PineyBob wrote:
According to my understanding of the agreement, the only LEGAL requirement to trigger the 5% was an actual breakout of hostilities with Iraq? Now for all you "Legal Eagles" If the the word "War" is actually in the contract did in fact a "war" occur? Is there a congressional declaration? Is the gubmit argueing that the UN resolutions authorizing use of force suffiecient for a state of war to exist as it applies to contract law in the USA?
Perhaps this evidence needs to be tested in court also.
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Bob,On 5/1/2003 9:42:12 AM PineyBob wrote:
According to my understanding of the agreement, the only LEGAL requirement to trigger the 5% was an actual breakout of hostilities with Iraq? Now for all you "Legal Eagles" If the the word "War" is actually in the contract did in fact a "war" occur? Is there a congressional declaration? Is the gubmit argueing that the UN resolutions authorizing use of force suffiecient for a state of war to exist as it applies to contract law in the USA?
Perhaps this evidence needs to be tested in court also.
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The war event was not the trigger. The "trigger" is that the war event has to have an adverse effect on aviation specifically our airline. So, the question is, if the load factors are at 74% same as last year, what were they even before the war. The ups and downs of the bookings which normally occur every year in this industry is not the triggering event. It would have to be sustaining. Well, is it?
The courts will decide. Just was hoping the company would return this money in "good faith" instead of Labor having to go to the exptreme instead of the outside courts. Management should be taking the credit for this return; not a judge.
PITbull
Veteran
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On 5/1/2003 4:12:45 PM PineyBob wrote:
Read this paragraph VERY carefully and observe that the phrase "material adverse effect" does NOT appear as part of the war portion of the paragraph but rather as a part of the (B) section referencing terrorism and it''s "material adverse effect" on bookings. Two entirely separate issues. They snagged you sweetie. Some good lawyering on the other side.The key word in the whole paragraph is the word "or" instead of either means that Dave gets to defer the money. Don''t write back all fired up in righteous indignation about what''s fair, right and moral.
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Bob,On 5/1/2003 4:12:45 PM PineyBob wrote:
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WAR CONTINGENCY: In the event that (a) the U.S. invades Iraq (meaning that the U.S. initiates a sustained aerial bombardment of those parts of Iraq that are not within the current no fly zone or introduces substantial numbers of ground troops into the territory of Iraq), or (B) there is an act of terrorism which in either event has a material adverse impact on commercial aviation, there will be an immediate 5% pay deferral for up to 18 months. The deferral will begin to be repaid starting in the first month following the end of the deferral and will continue to be repaid in as many monthly installments as were covered by the deferral. In the event that US Airways Group reports a pretax profit with respect to any quarter during which the pay deferral is in effect, the deferral will immediately stop and repayment will begin in the next month to continue for the same number of months as were included in the deferral.
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PITbull,WAR CONTINGENCY: In the event that (a) the U.S. invades Iraq (meaning that the U.S. initiates a sustained aerial bombardment of those parts of Iraq that are not within the current no fly zone or introduces substantial numbers of ground troops into the territory of Iraq), or (B) there is an act of terrorism which in either event has a material adverse impact on commercial aviation, there will be an immediate 5% pay deferral for up to 18 months. The deferral will begin to be repaid starting in the first month following the end of the deferral and will continue to be repaid in as many monthly installments as were covered by the deferral. In the event that US Airways Group reports a pretax profit with respect to any quarter during which the pay deferral is in effect, the deferral will immediately stop and repayment will begin in the next month to continue for the same number of months as were included in the deferral.
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Read this paragraph VERY carefully and observe that the phrase "material adverse effect" does NOT appear as part of the war portion of the paragraph but rather as a part of the (B) section referencing terrorism and it''s "material adverse effect" on bookings. Two entirely separate issues. They snagged you sweetie. Some good lawyering on the other side.The key word in the whole paragraph is the word "or" instead of either means that Dave gets to defer the money. Don''t write back all fired up in righteous indignation about what''s fair, right and moral.
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Our attorneys are focused on this "which in either event has an adverse impact on commercial aviation". Does not say "bookings". So, the company will have to prove that this war event had an adverse effect on our airline. period, other than the problems we had before the war.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #8
This agreement also predates the move in Congress to write U a check in excess of $200 million bucks. That money is to offset expenses incurred due to the "war", so the ONLY reason they want our money is because they CAN. It has nothing to do with what is RIGHT! We will fight this in court. With all the publicity with regard to executive compensation, it shouldn't be too hard to find a sympathetic ear amoung the courts.
A320 Driver
GIVE IT BACK!!!!!
A320 Driver
GIVE IT BACK!!!!!
Hey guys,
Please discuss the 5% under the other thread dedicated to that topic.
This one is about the load factor for April.
Thanks.
Please discuss the 5% under the other thread dedicated to that topic.
This one is about the load factor for April.
Thanks.
OP
Dea Certe
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 889
- 0
Is Chris still here? I thought his little faux pas on a public message board might have earned him time in the doghouse without a keyboard! It surely wasn''t his finest hour as one of the "bright and talented" was it?
We may not have the legal grounds to get the 5% back but with all the continuing outcry on CEO salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes, we might have a bit of leverage here. The economy is stagnant because people have no money and little consumer confidence.
US Airways could turn this into something good. Wave that Flag! Rationalize those fares! Celebrate the end of the War with Freedom Fares and show their pride in the employees who sacrificed in the bad times by restoring their salaries. Could work a little magic with the State of PA about now too.
Or, they could align themselves in the ranks of the Evil Corporate World, out for themselves only without producing for shareholders, employees or the economy. How un-American is that?
What would make the most compelling cover of News Week? Seems a no-brainer here.
Hey Piney! Wanna join forces and start our own PR company?
We may not have the legal grounds to get the 5% back but with all the continuing outcry on CEO salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes, we might have a bit of leverage here. The economy is stagnant because people have no money and little consumer confidence.
US Airways could turn this into something good. Wave that Flag! Rationalize those fares! Celebrate the end of the War with Freedom Fares and show their pride in the employees who sacrificed in the bad times by restoring their salaries. Could work a little magic with the State of PA about now too.
Or, they could align themselves in the ranks of the Evil Corporate World, out for themselves only without producing for shareholders, employees or the economy. How un-American is that?
What would make the most compelling cover of News Week? Seems a no-brainer here.
Hey Piney! Wanna join forces and start our own PR company?
Dea Certe
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 889
- 0
Piney,
US Airways has repeated squandered golden Public Relations opportunities. Is it a lack of brains or lack of vision? I don''t know. I thought the "Cockroaches" were fabulous! I appreciated your efforts and still think you need to be on the payroll as you have done more marketing around here than anyone.
Don''t brag to me about your firm PR girlfriends. I might be tempted to regale you with few stories of my blond, tanned surfer-boys. This wouldn''t be appropriate for this board and I''m far too ladylike to mention such things.
Dea
US Airways has repeated squandered golden Public Relations opportunities. Is it a lack of brains or lack of vision? I don''t know. I thought the "Cockroaches" were fabulous! I appreciated your efforts and still think you need to be on the payroll as you have done more marketing around here than anyone.
Don''t brag to me about your firm PR girlfriends. I might be tempted to regale you with few stories of my blond, tanned surfer-boys. This wouldn''t be appropriate for this board and I''m far too ladylike to mention such things.
Dea
PITbull
Veteran
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On 5/1/2003 9:25:10 PM Dea Certe wrote:
Is Chris still here? I thought his little faux pas on a public message board might have earned him time in the doghouse without a keyboard! It surely wasn't his finest hour as one of the "bright and talented" was it?
We may not have the legal grounds to get the 5% back but with all the continuing outcry on CEO salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes, we might have a bit of leverage here. The economy is stagnant because people have no money and little consumer confidence.
US Airways could turn this into something good. Wave that Flag! Rationalize those fares! Celebrate the end of the War with Freedom Fares and show their pride in the employees who sacrificed in the bad times by restoring their salaries. Could work a little magic with the State of PA about now too.
Or, they could align themselves in the ranks of the Evil Corporate World, out for themselves only without producing for shareholders, employees or the economy. How un-American is that?
What would make the most compelling cover of News Week? Seems a no-brainer here.
Hey Piney! Wanna join forces and start our own PR company?
----------------
Dea,On 5/1/2003 9:25:10 PM Dea Certe wrote:
Is Chris still here? I thought his little faux pas on a public message board might have earned him time in the doghouse without a keyboard! It surely wasn't his finest hour as one of the "bright and talented" was it?
We may not have the legal grounds to get the 5% back but with all the continuing outcry on CEO salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes, we might have a bit of leverage here. The economy is stagnant because people have no money and little consumer confidence.
US Airways could turn this into something good. Wave that Flag! Rationalize those fares! Celebrate the end of the War with Freedom Fares and show their pride in the employees who sacrificed in the bad times by restoring their salaries. Could work a little magic with the State of PA about now too.
Or, they could align themselves in the ranks of the Evil Corporate World, out for themselves only without producing for shareholders, employees or the economy. How un-American is that?
What would make the most compelling cover of News Week? Seems a no-brainer here.
Hey Piney! Wanna join forces and start our own PR company?
----------------
He still here. In fact Corporate still pm messages me. Remember in a previous post that I stated that I was pm and that Corporate said they would be off the boards for awhile but they would still watch closely. And to look for a BIG annoucement in the next 90 days.
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