Big Airlines: Not Much Runway Left

[USA320Pilot]

Big Airlines: Not Much Runway Left - United and the other major carriers must remake themselves -- or go down trying

It's more likely that one or more carriers will follow in the footsteps of such dinosaurs as Pan Am, Eastern, and TWA. "Labor will clearly do something" at both United and US Airways, predicts one high-ranking airline executive.

Vaughn Cordle, a United pilot and financial analyst who runs AirlineForecasts LLC, questions whether airline employees truly understand the magnitude of the problems facing their carriers, especially the crushing debt and pension costs. If workers refuse to make the necessary changes, he believes, airlines such as United will be forced to start selling assets. In short, they'll slowly begin to liquidate, and that will only exacerbate cost and revenue problems.

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Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[E-TRONS]

Ya think??????

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

USA320Pilot,

What you fail to realize (actually you probably realize but fear to accept) is that most employees are not confused this time and fully understand the magnitude of the problems and the hopelessness of situation. The only revotes you will have this time is if an agreement actually passes, excluding ALPA of course.

When will you finally give up like you did on the yahoo board?

No amount of badgering or spin mania is gonna stop the inevitable.

It's more likely that Usairway and United will follow in the footsteps of such dinosaurs as Pan Am, Eastern, and TWA. Labor will clearly do something and most employees know what that will be at Usairways.

 

[local 12 proud]

is it just me? i get the impression usa320 would have all other airline employees give up pensions and work for walmart wages so the sky gods could keep those wings and doctor wages!

 

[bigbusdrvr]

USA320Pilot,

What you fail to realize (actually you probably realize but fear to accept) is that most employees are not confused this time and fully understand the magnitude of the problems and the hopelessness of situation. The only revotes you will have this time is if an agreement actually passes, excluding ALPA of course.

When will you finally give up like you did on the yahoo board?

No amount of badgering or spin mania is gonna stop the inevitable.

It's more likely that Usairway and United will follow in the footsteps of such dinosaurs as Pan Am, Eastern, and TWA. Labor will clearly do something and most employees know what that will be at Usairways.

I believe you are correct in that most employees at the legacy carriers fully understand the hoplessness of voting themselves out of a job.

They know that their job description was only supported under the old busted airline operation, an operation the traveling public has voted down with their buying priorities...

The employees that are willing to accept the realities of the changed market place will have to go to a LCC and start over, unfortunately...

At least the "No Voters" can go down knowing they sunk everybodies dreams along with theirs. This is the same mantra as "If I can't have it, nobody can!!

What a great attitude!!

 

[USFlyer]

Folks, he posted a link to a Business Week article, not a written opinion of his beliefs. Give it a rest already.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

I believe you are correct in that most employees at the legacy carriers fully understand the hoplessness of voting themselves out of a job.

They know that their job description was only supported under the old busted airline operation, an operation the traveling public has voted down with their buying priorities...

The employees that are willing to accept the realities of the changed market place will have to go to a LCC and start over, unfortunately...

At least the "No Voters" can go down knowing they sunk everybodies dreams along with theirs. This is the same mantra as "If I can't have it, nobody can!!

What a great attitude!!

Lets make it clear what you mean by that statement since you are referring to me as correct saying it.

By saying voting themselves out of a job it could full well mean voting "yes" or "no".

The "buying priorities" and "market place" defense is crap. The airline put itself in this place by not evolving, by not fixing its inefficiencies and not prepairing for the future.

The employees and their wages and benefits are not the problem.

I believe most employees will move on into life and a new industry and not to a LCC or stay in airline industry.

At least no voters, if it even results in sinking ship, can stand up and know they did what they felt was the right thing to do, given the companies inability to run an airline. Yes that is a great attitude and one everyone should be proud of.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Folks, he posted a link to a Business Week article, not a written opinion of his beliefs. Give it a rest already.

Yes he posted a link but he also cut and posted key points he obviously believes and is part of his ongoing mantra.

I will NOT give it a rest until he does. If you don't like it your options are to read it or not respond or not just like mine.

 

[USFlyer]

I will NOT give it a rest until he does. If you don't like it your options are to read it or not respond or not just like mine.

You forgot one option: To reply and point out where I think you're wrong.

 

[700UW]

This thread has nothing to do with US, MOVE IT!

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

You forgot one option: To reply and point out where I think you're wrong.

That would fall under the respond option.

Ok my punctuation was wrong, let me try again, let me drop that comma in

I will NOT give it a rest until he does. If you don't like it your options are to read it or not, respond or not just like mine.

 

[FA Mikey]

I believe you are correct in that most employees at the legacy carriers fully understand the hoplessness of voting themselves out of a job.

They know that their job description was only supported under the old busted airline operation, an operation the traveling public has voted down with their buying priorities...

The employees that are willing to accept the realities of the changed market place will have to go to a LCC and start over, unfortunately...

At least the "No Voters" can go down knowing they sunk everybodies dreams along with theirs. This is the same mantra as "If I can't have it, nobody can!!

What a great attitude!!

Its more along the lines of, employees reach a point that they no longer are willing to subsidize corporate inefficiency, huge management pay out's, whether that be stock, bonuses, or inflated wages.

Why should the little guy always have to bear the brunt of cooperate greed and inefficiency? Until I see my company cut all the waste this employee is not willing to even listen to the idea of additional cuts.

I am sorry but your idea of reality that, no voter's bringing down the dreams of the people willing to continue to bend over and take it. Is completely off. Its about those who have some self respect and are making a stand. Until people start to make a difference stand up for what is just. This type of corporate extortion will continue.

Every person has a choice. Be it voting yes to help support waste, inefficiency, and millionaire executives, or No, not until you fix the ship. We are all in this together, but money is only being extracted from on side. The one's who can least afford it.

 

[Fly]

Big Airlines: Not Much Runway Left - United and the other major carriers must remake themselves -- or go down trying

Or should that say USAIR and the other major carriers...... <_<

 

[unit4clt]

bigbusdrvr

No one has explained why mainline employees, should subsidize costly RJ operators, with their wage and benefit cuts. It has been pointed out before that casm for RJs are actually higher than mainline, but management is determined to keep transferring routes to RJs. The only purpose for this is to get at labor.
As for the flying public they will make a choice to fly US on RJS, or fly on mainline aircraft on another carrier....O let me guess this will be the NO VOTERS FAULT also.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

bigbusdrvr

No one has explained why mainline employees, should subsidize costly RJ operators, with their wage and benefit cuts. It has been pointed out before that casm for RJs are actually higher than mainline, but management is determined to keep transferring routes to RJs. The only purpose for this is to get at labor.
As for the flying public they will make a choice to fly US on RJS, or fly on mainline aircraft on another carrier....O let me guess this will be the NO VOTERS FAULT also.

Very valid points by both you and No Vote....

Like I said its is nearly imposible to convince someone their position will be deleted or outsourced, I can't say I would blame them for voting no....

Management has had a lot of opportunities to make this easier on us all and they have droped the ball every time.

It will be a miracle if they get LCC cost structure from this or any other legacy carrier...

Thus my position, UAIR is probably done, boy am I late to the party or what!!

I thought we'd be the first to evolve, but instead we'll be the first to fall... Then the other carriers will see or fate, wake up and save their carriers by evolving...

Best of luck to you...