Bluff or Absurd


Aug 28, 2002
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[P] First I want to state that I am not pushing a yes or no vote. I just want to make some observations that some may not have seen, realized, or have chosen not believe. Reality has many faces, strange but true. We have union leaders this round urging an acceptance vote as the upcoming meetings will show. We also have some union leaders posting on these boards stating the exact opposite position. We all realize many people are getting hurt, with more to follow, that cuts are pending with maybe even more on the horizon, God only knows at this point. Our company leader is from the ivy league with no limits in sight as to his future pursuits. Many of us don’t have a degree at any level, skills yes, and not everyone at U even has a skill. What does our future look like? I say bleak at best, in these troubled times. This is fact. How many of our union leaders have a degree? I don’t really know, but they did fill out an application to get a job here like the rest of us did. We have some of those union leaders telling us the powers running this company are bluffing, evil and heartless. Union leaders that are full of rage and anger telling you what is in your best interest. The people running the show have achieved levels most of us will never dream of reaching whether that is because we are not rich enough, not smart enough, not enough drive and other varied reasons. This is fact. The union leaders are one and the same as us, same level in every way. We can reason the same as they can, maybe even better because we don’t have that desire to be heard and seen, unlike very public figures with big egos to fill. This is fact. Dave S and Dave B have made a lot of people happy with the decisions they have made in the past. This is also a fact and public record. People say Dave S screwed Continental employees. Right now in the news, Continental employees are getting raises while all other airline employees lose their jobs. This is fact. We have Dave & Dave saying U could very well perish if union members don’t come together with this latest round. Then you have some union leaders saying it’s all a bluff and absurd, we don’t have to take this, be men and fight back. That they are saying this is a fact. Look back in history, there is a time to surrender and a time to fight. So who is bluffing and what is absurd?[/P]
[P]Cavalier [/P][/FONT]
Maybe bluff, maybe not, you are probably correct in your suggestion that some people do not have enough "drive", spirit, confidence, whatever, to fend for themselves,to seek other employment, and to stop and get off the bus before the muffler falls off and the engine dies. Someone else in another topic said they took precautions and were looking in other fields job and education wise before this all went down in 2002 and prior. That person was smart, so were others.But 250 out of 300 res folks with this last cut for JAN 2003 basically proclaimed "THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH!!" They are not moving, they realized the UNION sold them out, and they are not uprooting their lives and families just to follow a sinking ship. I feel sorry for those who still have sugar plum visions in thinking they will maintain 20 an hour in Winston or PA or wherever their CS job takes them, it won't be that much for long. Dave's purpose, contrary to his road show thetoric, is to get these CS jobs down to JetBlue Air Tran levels, and it aint close to 20 an hour thats a fact.And then whattaya got? A new home in a new city, and @ 13 an hour when DAVE has his way. He is now rearranging the work force with lower B scale employees call backs, and with more to come with further cuts and renegotiations(scratch that,make that DEMANDS and ULTIMATUMS).No matter how you vote, those furloughed should enjoy whatever bennys they get after the last day on the job. Thank God I am, speaking for myself that is. No stress, and still US money coming in for several weeks, and free flights til the last plane lands.Whoopee!
Cav. unrelated question, how did you make your text so big? I like it, most of the posts the text is so small it's difficult to read.
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[H3]Well.....Just go to the tool bar below the Quote button.[BR][BR]Use the drop down box that says heading.[BR] [BR][FONT size=7] Happy New Year[BR] &[BR] Best Regards[BR][BR][FONT size=4][FONT size=7] [/FONT]Cavalier[/FONT][BR] [/FONT][/H3]
[H1][FONT face="Arial Black" size=7]Is that the best you can come up with guys? Size does matter no matter what they say,[FONT face="Times New Roman" size=5]referencing airlines of course.[/FONT][/FONT][/H1]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/29/2002 6:12:35 PM Severed-N-Happy wrote:
[H1][FONT face='"Arial' size=7 Black"]Is that the best you can come up with guys? Size does matter no matter what they say,[FONT face='"Times' size=5 Roman" New]referencing airlines of course.[/FONT][/FONT][/H1]
[P][FONT size=7]Size doesn't matter...[/FONT][FONT size=2]How you use what you've got does.....[/FONT][/P]

Your post is the "million dollar" question and nobody truly knows the answer. That's the problem. However, the threat of liquidation was real enough that all US Airways unions elected to send out their tentative agreements recommending approval and for ALPA to ratify their agreement at the MEC level.

I believe management's true motivation is to get W-2 cuts to survive a war with Iraq, productivity changes to more closely align labor contracts with the likes of Southwest and JetBlue, and are a "last push" to lower labor cuts while management has the bankruptcy hammer over labor. In addition, if war breaks out with Iraq revenue could further deteriorate and if this occurs it could jeopardize the loan guarantee, thus the further cuts may be necessary to sway the ATSB.

However, the challenge for labor is -- are the liquidation threats valid or not?

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However, the challenge for labor is -- are the liquidation threats valid or not?[BR]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR] [FONT size=3]I[/FONT] [FONT size=3]for one absolutely believe they are VERY valid. People like Dave & Dave don't play mind games, they play reality games, and the reality is some people just don't believe the reality they face. Another scary reality is the fact that this is a bad time to play "I Double Dare You" with an economy in the pits and many competing for jobs paying WAY less than U offers, AFTER all the give backs. Ask the MBA who is selling cell phones why he's doing that with his education, then go and find that 50K a year job without your degree, or even HALF that. Good luck to those you feel I am off the mark. [/FONT]
I will be voting "NO" in round 2....We gave away too much in round 1 !!!!! I have no problem with giving the company what they want concerning R&D,,, But I draw the line at ANOTHER paycut -5% WHEN,,,,not if- we get involved further with IRAQ..Also there is no need to hit us further in the health insurance area !!! The 2 DAVES are coming at us with all they got while we are in bankrupcy... THEY have enough from the mechanics ALREADY...They can revisit management if they want more $$$$. I understand upper management will STILL be receiving BONUSES three years from now while our concessions go on till 2008 !! I believe the THREAT of liquidation is just that... a THREAT..Management would simply be FOOLS to throw in the towel after all the concessions they ALREADY have..As for all the -DOOM & GLOOMERS-out there that believe the company needs more $$$ to make the ATSB happy,, DON'T BELIEVE THEM...Just remember,,Figures don't Lie,,,,,Only LIARS figure !!!
I liked the size of his letters in his first post. Didn't have to put my reading glasses on to read it. And yes both size and the way you use it is important--and I'm referring to airlines and the way they use their employees. Allaghney--never could spell it--a long long time ago had the nicest people working for them--it was the accent from Western Pa that made it sound harsh. Good luck everyone
I have not run into one fellow CWA person that has voted Yes. All no's. And I have been asking everyone I run into how they voted.