Canadian Helicopters Medics Unionize

[saturnman]

To whom it may concern: From the CAW website www.caw.ca

Emergency Medical Flight Paramedics Join CAW

June 03, 2004, 11:40 a.m. EST

The Canada Industrial Relations Board has certified the CAW as the bargaining agent for 95 emergency medical flight paramedics working for Canadian Helicopter Ltd. CHL is contracted by the Ontario Ministry of Health to provide helicopters and necessary personnel to Ontario’s emergency health care system.
The CHL flight paramedics work from seven bases; Toronto, Sudbury, London, Ottawa, Thunder Bay, Moosonee and Kenora. Their primary role is to pick up patients on scene, provide life saving medical care and transport them to hospitals - and also to transfer patients between facilities in emergency situations.

The flight paramedics join some 300 CAW paramedics in the union’s growing health care sector.


From what I hear, the pilots are taking a "sit back and watch" attitude and are going to wait for the medics before they say: "Me too!"

Primary care medics east of Toronto working with OPSEU or CUPE are now being paid starting wages of $33 per hours plus benefits...

S/M

 

[412driver]

"wages of $33 per hours plus benefits..."

that's it??? :huh:

hmmmmm, helijet captains make better than that........... 🙄

 

[DecuMajor]

Let's see

$33/hr. x 160 hours/mo. = $5280/mo. x 12 months = $63360/annum

Plus bennies

Not bad in my books

The real one to watch is what the pilots do. Only a fool would believe most operators aren't getting just a little worried that at some point a group of pilots will successfully unionize IN Canada.

Be interesting to see what the average Canadian operator might do the day the shoe winds up on the other foot.

 

[saturnman]

Just an FYI:

Primary care medics are equivalent in CHL EMS's eyes to Copilots and the Advanced Care medics to Captains. The Critcal care medics in the company now make more than just about all the Captains (except the holdovers from Toronto Helicopters). So, the ACPs in Durham county are making $40 per hr ($80K per year TO START) plus bennies....this is v. good pay.

I know there are more than just a few Captains out there a little p1$$ed at that!!

S/M

 

[JAFO]

oops

 

[JAFO]

howdy boys,

One sure thing is that every FO is being taken advantage of by CHL EMS. They have all the same requirements except hours on type. They have to pass a Captain's PPC, they are ATPL rated and instrument rated. Most FO's do not fit into the 500 hour minimum requirement bracket - many cross over with thousands of hours.

The aircraft can complete the requirements of the contract, with a very small fine from the customer, with 1 medic or even with 0 medics. The aircraft can NOT complete the requirements of the contract with 1 pilot - the aircraft is grounded. The fine from the customer is very significant per shift at a fee of well over $5000!!

The pay scales for medics have 7 levels - for captains have 10 levels and for FO's have 14 levels. The length of time to go from the bottom to the top of your payscale is more than twice as long for an FO as it is for a medic and longer for a captain than for a medic.

The starting hourly rate for an FO is $13.07. :down:
The starting hourly rate for a Captain is $28.52.
The starting hourly rate for an advanced care medic is $26.46.
The starting hourly rate for a critical care medic is $30.82.

Another issue CHL EMS must amend is the frequent use of foreigners who will work for lower salaries to help with getting citizenship and experience flying in Canada. CHL EMS claims they can not fill the ranks with pilots meeting the requirements in Canada. That is because not many VFR drivers earning $60,000+ annually are willing to take the huge pay cut to cross over.

Will the pilots unionize? What do you think?

JAFO

 

[Blackmac]

JAFO: YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS AND WERE ASKED IF YOU WOULD PREFER UNION OR AN ASSOCIATION.

EVERYBODY VOTED ASSOCIATION.

HELICOPTER ENGINEER'S AND PILOT ASSOCIATION, CANADA WAS FORMED AT NO COST TO ANYBODY, EXCEPT ME.

VERY FEW PEOPLE JOINED.

HOW THE H?LL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING IF YOU DON'T TAKE PART?????

THE PRESIDENT OF CHL HAS BEEN ASKED TO TAKE PART IN THIS DISCUSSION, BUT HAS REFUSED, SO FAR. I GUESS HE WOULD PREFER DEALING WITH THE FTQ, WHO ARE THE MAJOR SHAREHOLDERS.

I HOPE THIS WAS LOUD ENOUGH FOR EVERYBODY.

Sh?t or get of the pot, cry all you want, you have nobody to blame but yourselves.

Think about it, Don

 

[PIC]

That's it, I've had enough of reading obnoxious and offensive posts from Blackmac. Who in his right mind would ever consider signing up to be a member of HEPAC with such a person at its helm? You have to be kidding. And for $200 as well? No wonder very few people seem to be interested…

Sorry to take this topic off on a tangent and for being so negative - I know that this forum is all supposed to be about sharing ideas and discussing opinions in a decent manner. However, Blackmac just seems to always come in with aggressive and/or one-sided posts. If you hope to promote HEPAC, you are so far off the beaten track Don. Maybe you should reconsider your commitment…

I don’t care to discuss whether Canadian pilots and engineers need an association, that’s been discussed at great length before. To each his/her own. But one thing is for sure, for HEPAC to ever get off the ground and truly represent all of us would require someone with a lot more diplomacy and tact.

PIC

 

[Fully Articulated]

Get over it.

They need a union, they are getting raped by the employer (Esp FOs). :down: Just check the staff turnover rate. . .

Glad to see that somebody finally has a set of cojones big enough to try to fix it.

BZ B-Mac

 

[Blackmac]

Pilot in Command, of what.

Try and speak for yourself, because you certainly do not understand the due process of an association or did they have that in kindergarten.
Try and read the bylaws and try to understand what an association is all about or are you above that, with your condecending and know it all attitude.

Cheers and you can apologize any time, because the association would belong to you if you took part.

Something else to consider by you and anybody else in this industry, I will not kiss a?s for anybody.

Exactly what is happening now was predicted over two years ago by my self and the person who made this post, or is your memory that selective.

This prior post I made was not negative, just relating the facts that had been predicted.

The association was set up for your benefit, I gain nothing from it other than the fact that maybe you guys will start looking after one another instead of griping about the same old.

As for me running the show, well the only thing I can say is this, I started this with two other directors and NO member has come forward to say he would like to be Pres.

PIC, become a member and you can apply for my job, in fact any member can have it. I will gladly give it up and let you deal with all the nice people on this site.

A Newfoundlander said to me that most of the people on this site would rather sit around and #### and do nothing, just like Newf's.

You seem to have the answer to the problem, so put up or shut up.

Cheers, Don

PS: I was paying over $50.00/month in union dues in the government, for nothing.

 

[jetbox]

I said it before and I'll say it again, there's no point in pilots and engineers forming or joining unions until some sort of regulation forces the operators to increase their hourly rates to a realistic level. We can't pay high salaries, give awsome benefits, buy new helicopters every five years as long as the friggin rates are so low!!!

Blacmac, there's usually nothing wrong with what you say in your posts, it's the way you say it man!!! Nobody wants you to compromise or apologize, just lighten up a tad will ya ?!? 😀 😀

 

[Blackmac]

JetBox: With no disrespect, I've listened to the same BS before de-regulation and since.

So what is the answer????

The owners are there own worst enemy and that hasn't changed since the sixties.

What purpose does HAC serve other than a place that every one can complain to one another.

The purpose of HEPAC is well stated in the preamble.

Nobody is expecting that HEPAC is the answer to everything or that changes will happen overnight, everything takes time.

The operators with their "beancounter" attitude screwed things up, maybe an association with balls can bring things to a stage that makes sence.

Who are the best marketing people that any company has, the people in the field doing the job and that will never change.

Why are operators in the US getting more money/hour.??????

Why do you think CHC sold over half it's interest in light helicopters in Canada??????

Why is HAC as an association not taking a more aggresive approach to educate the end user's to the reality of the cost of operating helicopters and the welfare of people employed in the industry???????.

And on and on.

Cheers,Don

 

[PIC]

I am not interested in getting into a verbal abuse contest or the like with you Don. And I am also not interested in your position or your association. Thanks anyway. That’s my choice and I wish you all the best in your effort with HEPAC.

I have no major beef with this industry – if I did, I would choose to do something else for a living. But if people are unhappy and wish to do something about it, well then the better for them. Don’t let me stop anyone!

As jetbox said, maybe just try to go easy and remember that as the voice of HEPAC, you are supposed to be the representative for the rest of the gang (and it doesn’t mean that you have to kiss a?s either).

 

[Blackmac]

PIC: I have no intention of getting into a pi//ing contest with you or anybody else.

I'm just getting tired of listening to the same old and might add that my postings are on a positive note. I am only trying to create an atmosphere that will possibly make people think as group other than sitting in the corner sucking there thumb and thinking how they are so hard done by.

Have you ever really thought of what an association can do from a social and economic piont of vue for the industry.

How do you think HAI was formed?????

What would be wrong with Canadian version of HAI????

It can happen if people would only get together.

Or maybe HAC is the answer, I thought it was when it first came out.

Would you not like to have a say in your future endeavours????

Please do not come back with the same old " I would join except for you know who is the spokes person for HEPAC " , he can be replaced, gladly, at any time.


Cheers, Don and quit sucking your thumb, it's bad for your front teeth.

PS: If anybody wishes to take over HEPAC, let me know, as I am retired from the industry and nobody seems to care one way or the other what happens and continue to be led around by the nose, you can have it for nothing. My contribution to the industry.

 

[DecuMajor]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight............................

So once again a thread appears to be on the verge of hijack.

But before it does, does anyone with something RELATED to this thread know what, or if, the pilots at CHL EMS have commented on the meddies unionizing???

And everybody....................................stop sucking your thumb. :wacko: