City of Dallas still in talks with Delta about Love Field

[swamt]

They have extended Delta's stay at LF into Wed as talks continue between COD and Delta.  Seems Delta is still throwing the law suit threat out there, so the COD wants to make sure Delta does not have a case.  The extension could very well go for the rest of this week.  But they are still meeting about it...
 
Delta still flies from Love Field despite deadline

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, the City didn't say anything about making sure DL does not have a case. that is your flawed interpretation.

The City of Dallas knows full well that DL is in the right to be asking for access and the threat of a lawsuit which I said was real almost a year ago is still real.

The city of Dallas is not willing to run the risk of going to court over the entire Wright Amendment and all of the other amendments to it.

The City was wrong in not providing some means of common use gates in its leases and instead leasing out 100% of their gate capacity. Very few large airports in the US have done that because the rest of them know they have to accommodate non-lease holders.

all they are trying to do now is figure out how they can keep DL from going to court - which means pushing on the leaseholders to provide gate space for DL.

 

[robbedagain]

much like the DL Legal Challenge for US/AA merger you claimed would happen.   Youre so dam full of crap  and BS   you cant even tell the truth if the truth was right in front of you.      DL and COD are still in talks but it does not mean anything gonna happen  

 

[swamt]

Let's give it time folks.  Like I have always said this could very well go either way, but, it take a huge move by someone in order for Delta to continue flying out of LF.  Nego's will be ongoing for a little longer.  I am hearing some rumblings that Delta may get to stay, but there will be some slight changes. What they are and what might get changed is the unknown, stay tuned, as we are hearing this may get interesting...

 

[FWAAA]

Delta subleases gate space from United for 180 days (until July 6). After that, who knows?

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2015/01/delta-air-lines-cuts-deal-with-dallas-united-to-remain-at-love-field-for-180-days-for-now.html/

 

[eolesen]

Perhaps VX will be ready to give up by then?

 

[WorldTraveler]

nobody is doing anything for DL out of the goodness of their heart despite what some WN employees think.

They all know, UA included, that if DL doesn't get the access it wants, it will go to court and the leases at DAL - which do not provide any mechanism to accommodate non-leasing airlines - will be challenged - and WN and UA's leases could be thrown out or modified.

I have said this for months here and some people clearly don't understand the art of negotiating under pressure but that is exactly what is happening.

UA and WN aren't willing to risk losing what they do have so will keep offering DL what they can, esp. since the city of Dallas doesn't want to admit it screwed up in writing the leases in the first place.

DL will be at DAL or they will pursue the legal challenge necessary to affirm their right to be there - likely at the expense of other carriers' leases.

UA and WN aren't willing to take that risk.

VX might well give up - which everyone would shed no tears over.

 

[swamt]

Delta subleases gate space from United for 180 days (until July 6). After that, who knows?

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2015/01/delta-air-lines-cuts-deal-with-dallas-united-to-remain-at-love-field-for-180-days-for-now.html/

Yes.  SWA has fully utilized the gate that they were leasing to Delta on a temporary basis (until Jan 6th).  Now United has moved to allow another temporary lease to Delta until July 6th.  And yes, we will all see this fiasco happen again in another 180 days.  Delta will have to nego, fight, or whine to remain at DAL LF come July 6th 2015.  But here are some key points;  Delta will no longer share or lease a gate from SWA.  Delta is still on a TEMPORARY lease agreement.  Delta is now leasing from another airline (United) for now.  And as the articles say, with just 20 gates the room will soon be gone to accommodate Delta.  They have scrambled to get Delta over to the new gate being leased from United.  Maybe Virgin will step up next and allow Delta to temporary lease a gate from them and they will have to move yet again. Delta would have to move again, mad rush to change gates again. Maybe Express could allow Delta to lease from them after Virgin does and they would have to move the gate yet again.  WOW!  Isn't this fun Delta?  Those slight changes I mentioned before are not so slight after all, are they Delta?  Soon there will be no room for Delta when the summer months approach and airlines will be adding flights as the demand dictates.  So Delta was able to nego an extension for 180 days to July 6th. Still temporary, and still only sharing a gate, and only able to do the original 5 flights to ATL, only now they are sharing with United.  Yea Delta is still at LF, but at what price is it still at LF?  Moving from gate to gate under temporary leases, and constantly having to change gates is not very effective, but hey, they are still there.  We will all see come July 6th. Man, you just gotta LUV this stuff...

 

[metopower]

Wait..Delta is still there after jan6 ? How can that be? Temporary is just another word for ..still flying out of LF . And they will play what ever game there is until DL is "HARMED" .Then it will go to court..something everybody is bending over backwards to prevent. Bottom line is Delta is flying and making money out of LF just as predicted .

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yes.  SWA has fully utilized the gate that they were leasing to Delta on a temporary basis (until Jan 6th).  Now United has moved to allow another temporary lease to Delta until July 6th.  And yes, we will all see this fiasco happen again in another 180 days.  Delta will have to nego, fight, or whine to remain at DAL LF come July 6th 2015.  But here are some key points;  Delta will no longer share or lease a gate from SWA.  Delta is still on a TEMPORARY lease agreement.  Delta is now leasing from another airline (United) for now.  And as the articles say, with just 20 gates the room will soon be gone to accommodate Delta.  They have scrambled to get Delta over to the new gate being leased from United.  Maybe Virgin will step up next and allow Delta to temporary lease a gate from them and they will have to move yet again. Delta would have to move again, mad rush to change gates again. Maybe Express could allow Delta to lease from them after Virgin does and they would have to move the gate yet again.  WOW!  Isn't this fun Delta?  Those slight changes I mentioned before are not so slight after all, are they Delta?  Soon there will be no room for Delta when the summer months approach and airlines will be adding flights as the demand dictates.  So Delta was able to nego an extension for 180 days to July 6th. Still temporary, and still only sharing a gate, and only able to do the original 5 flights to ATL, only now they are sharing with United.  Yea Delta is still at LF, but at what price is it still at LF?  Moving from gate to gate under temporary leases, and constantly having to change gates is not very effective, but hey, they are still there.  We will all see come July 6th. Man, you just gotta LUV this stuff...

let's face it... you have never understood the concept of fully and open competition and want to see DL pushed out of DAL.

You will be proven wrong once again.

there is nothing INEFFECTIVE or COSTLY about using different gates.

DL and other INT"L carriers do it all the time.

You would know nothing about it.

yes, meto, DL will be at DAL for a long time to come and WN and UA will keep being pushed on by DAL to accommodate them or the lawsuits will come that will shed the defective DAL leases that dn't allow for common use gates.

 

[DL2WN]

.

 

[Kev3188]

Moving from gate to gate under temporary leases, and constantly having to change gates is not very effective, but hey, they are still there.

Definitely a PITA, but not unheard of. Having CUTE gates makes it a bit easier as well.
 
 

Bottom line is Delta is flying and making money out of LF just as predicted .

Are we? (honest question. I assume the yield is good, but I have to wonder if the costs to stay there are making it worth it. Too bad we'll never see the segment revenue numbers...

 

[eolesen]

Way too much gloating and chest thumping going on from both sides here...

swaamt, just ask yourself how Herb would be responding to this when you pen your next response.

Kev, I also have to question if operating out of both DAL and DFW is worth it if you're hamstrung and can't operate a meaningful operation, or are going to be subjected to changes by the leaseholder.

When DL was subleasing from AA, they didn't have to worry about anyone else's delays or schedule.

For the next 180 days, if UAX has a mechanical, DL suffers. If UAX does a schedule change, DL has to do shift as well to accommodate UA. DL can't initiate a change to their schedule without getting UA's consent.

That's all complexity that didn't exist before October, and it's not going so subside unless VX does ultimately crumble, and that's an entirely different set of egos who probably won't back down.

 

[swamt]

Wait..Delta is still there after jan6 ? How can that be? Temporary is just another word for ..still flying out of LF . And they will play what ever game there is until DL is "HARMED" .Then it will go to court..something everybody is bending over backwards to prevent. Bottom line is Delta is flying and making money out of LF just as predicted .

But.  How much more money could they have been making if Delta really got what they were fighting for which was a total of 22 flights or more, out of min 2 gates if not 3 as originally planned for by Delta? They never did get the 2 gates that they said there would be suits over.  They never did get to the 22 flights originally planned for. They never did get a full gate at DAL LF, they are now temporarily leasing 1/2 a gate that they have to share with United.  The reason I bring all these up is because from what Delta really wanted at LF has in fact harmed Delta already.  They wanted to run way more flights to many, many more cities than just 5 to ATL, and out of at least 3 gates so yes, Delta has been harmed already, where are the suits?  They keep threatening the suits but then never bring them, wonder why that is?  We shall watch this fiasco all over again come July...

 

[swamt]

Way too much gloating and chest thumping going on from both sides here...

swaamt, just ask yourself how Herb would be responding to this when you pen your next response.

Kev, I also have to question if operating out of both DAL and DFW is worth it if you're hamstrung and can't operate a meaningful operation, or are going to be subjected to changes by the leaseholder.

When DL was subleasing from AA, they didn't have to worry about anyone else's delays or schedule.

For the next 180 days, if UAX has a mechanical, DL suffers. If UAX does a schedule change, DL has to do shift as well to accommodate UA. DL can't initiate a change to their schedule without getting UA's consent.

That's all complexity that didn't exist before October, and it's not going so subside unless VX does ultimately crumble, and that's an entirely different set of egos who probably won't back down.

These are some of the changes I was talking about that Delta will indeed have to endure during the 180 days moving forward.  The cost of trying to stay at LF vs the cost of operating as they have so far at LF is higher.  With everything included so far I would have to say Delta has loss money so far in 2014 at LF only...