CNN reports UA may liquidate when war starts

apofurlough

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Aug 20, 2002
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CNN says officials at UA have said in the event of war they may have to shut down and liquidate the airline - what will this do to our restructuring plan with the loss of all the revenue we are predicted to get from the code share? I hope this is only an intimidation threat for the employees and not a serious threat for the sakes of the employees and their families.
 

AP Tech

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Sep 4, 2002
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This may be an off the wall answer, but one would guess U would attempt to add some flights to take up the void where UAL left off.
 

Walmartgreeter

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Mar 6, 2003
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What will U do without the codeshare?....probably prosper. The codeshare is barely under way, much less profitable or of note. U probably has a 50/50 chance of making it through the next week. UAL has about a 5% chance. Any loss of codeshare will easily be made up in market share.
 

gilbertguy

Senior
Aug 29, 2002
368
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[blockquote]
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On 3/19/2003 12:13:06 AM A&P Tech wrote:

This may be an off the wall answer, but one would guess U would attempt to add some flights to take up the void where UAL left off.
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[/blockquote]
That's a pretty big void to fill.....like a marble inside a boxcar.....
 

AM49AAA

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Aug 20, 2002
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Airlineorphan you hit the nail on the head. The fate of CH 7, furlough, job loss, paycuts, etc. are things that can affect and happen to any of us. Let''s not forget that things didn''t get better for the remaining airlines when Eastern and Pam Am went under. Their demise and job losses were part of the economy grinding itself further into the ground. Eastern and USair competed on 1100 segments and things were still gloomy for USAir in 1991. I would never wish it on another airline employee and won''t speculate about the what if''s based on someone else''s suffering. First and foremost they are fellow human beings with lives, homes, and families. Secondly many are fellow union members and members of the same profession. I hope everyone makes it and prospers and brighter days are around the corner. If they aren''t then those of us more fortunate ought to be sensitive and courteous to those who aren''t.
 

airlineorphan

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Hey everyone, as UAL threatens to drop the Chapter 7 Bomb on its employees, please remember there are about 72,500 employees in the bombadier sights of UAL''s creditors and management.

Please please please, let''s steer clear of speculating about what neato goodies we can raid from the still warm corpse when the body isn''t yet dead. It''s simply rude, unseemly and unkind to those 72,500 people whose livelihoods management and the banks are threatening to liquidate.

-Airlineorphan
 

delldude

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Oct 29, 2002
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On 3/19/2003 7:20:31 AM airlineorphan wrote:

Hey everyone, as UAL threatens to drop the Chapter 7 Bomb on its employees, please remember there are about 72,500 employees in the bombadier sights of UAL''s creditors and management.

Please please please, let''s steer clear of speculating about what neato goodies we can raid from the still warm corpse when the body isn''t yet dead. It''s simply rude, unseemly and unkind to those 72,500 people whose livelihoods management and the banks are threatening to liquidate.

-Airlineorphan

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you have a valid point,but don''t forget for one minute,theres a room down in CCY or huntsville, that high ups from U are drooling over the same scenarion''s.
 

ITRADE

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Aug 19, 2002
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I agree with Bob.

I do not seem the harm in hypothesizing what effects the demise of one carrier will be on the others. Airlines must do it lest they be deficient in their fiduciary duties to their stockholders and BOD.

I can remember well about a year ago when folks were talking about the pieces of US: NW gets PHL and the A330s; AA gets the Shuttle and DCA and LGA; CO gets CLT; the crows get PIT.

These discussions are logical and strategizing on the part of the airline. While everybody certainly does not desire that folks be laid off or lose their sources of benefits, everybody must assume that plans are in the works to fill the vacuum that would certainly be created.

Bronner has already discussed it, Texas Pacific has already discussed it, Icann has probably discussed it, and I am sure that Gordo, Richard Anderson, David Neelham and others have discussed it.

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As to actually hypothesizing, I do wonder what US would incorporate into its fleet and system. Clearly, the demise of UA would create a big hole in the Star Alliance system. US can serve Europe to an extent - although not with the same amount of lift that UA has to Europe.

US has a total deficiency with regard to Asia. US''s one or two options would be to acquire the hub operations at either SFO or DEN. US would need long range planes to fly these routes, and I cannot begin to fathom what US is considering given that UA''s longhaul Asia craft are totally uncommon to US - 747s and 777s.
 

AM49AAA

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 3/19/2003 9:26:20 AM PineyBob wrote:

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On 3/19/2003 9:07:48 AM AM49AAA wrote:


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If investors, analysts, or airline enthusiasts whish to discuss it that is fine. There isn't one U employee who appreciated others speculating about U's demise. Two wrongs don't make a right. When people talk about routes, gates, slots etc. those things directly affect individuals jobs and families. Discussions about it cause angst about the future. When your household and family rely on your job it is distressing to see others wish it away or casually dismiss it in hypotheticals that will benifit themselves. I would like to think that airline employees would have enough respect for fellow professional not to join in these discussions. It shoulldn't matter what color the paintjob on the airplane is to be concerned and sensitive to the plight of others. As a furloughed U employee I would like to be back to work but not at the expens of others.

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Do you really believe what you just wrote? Competition is what capitalism is all about. I sold in the office products industry for 15 years. If a new sales rep from a competitor came into my assignment I would do ANYTHING to drive him into quitting the business. I took deals for $50.00 when the average commission was over $2,500.00 in order to demoralize and drive that person OUT of the business! That other Salesperson was out there to take food from my babies mouths and By God that wasn't happening without a fight. There is no honor in second place. Second place is really first loser. In Boxing it's called the killer instinct, same in business. It's a tough juxtaposition balancing the brutality of business with the desire to lead an honorable and moral life. But for me the decision would be an easy one, UA goes Pfffft! and I'd be the first in line to get the other guys position. Would never cross a picket line during a labor dispute. Had the opportunity to work as a strikebreaker in the coal fields when I got out of high school but didn't feel right to me. But the term "Industry Professional" to me is a joke. Judging from the recent contracts I think workers have had about all the "Solidarity" they can stand.


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I believe everything I wrote. It isn't about solidarity or contracts. It is about civility and respect. When peoples lives could come crashing down and you could "easily" be in their shoes, someone who isn't shallow tends to think about the effects of their words and actions. Employees aren't management. Management understand that business is business and I'm perfectly content to let them do their job and not jump for joy because somebody elses loss might be my gain. If you can't see that, there is no use debating it with you. When I here about UA's bad news I consider the people aspect of it along with everything else. I guess you don't. Secure people don't need to gloat about driving people out of business. They simply go about their business and do and make the most prudent decisions possible. It is typically the sign of a small person that feels the need to do so.
 

ITRADE

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Well, there is some honor in second place, but clearly there is little honor in bumbling around and letting yourself get run over on a continuous basis.

The fact of the matter is that if US just stood around while every other airline acquired pieces of another carrier - making US an even more significant player - some of you would be out here complaining that US had done nothing to improve its station.

The discussions here revolve around what US could do to improve its station by increasing its network, diversifying its flying, strengthening its alliance position, and growing economies of scale.
 

AM49AAA

Member
Aug 20, 2002
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On 3/19/2003 8:52:04 AM ITRADE wrote:

I agree with Bob.

I do not seem the harm in hypothesizing what effects the demise of one carrier will be on the others. Airlines must do it lest they be deficient in their fiduciary duties to their stockholders and BOD.

I can remember well about a year ago when folks were talking about the pieces of US: NW gets PHL and the A330s; AA gets the Shuttle and DCA and LGA; CO gets CLT; the crows get PIT.


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If investors, analysts, or airline enthusiasts whish to discuss it that is fine. There isn''t one U employee who appreciated others speculating about U''s demise. Two wrongs don''t make a right. When people talk about routes, gates, slots etc. those things directly affect individuals jobs and families. Discussions about it cause angst about the future. When your household and family rely on your job it is distressing to see others wish it away or casually dismiss it in hypotheticals that will benifit themselves. I would like to think that airline employees would have enough respect for fellow professional not to join in these discussions. It shoulldn''t matter what color the paintjob on the airplane is to be concerned and sensitive to the plight of others. As a furloughed U employee I would like to be back to work but not at the expens of others.
 

ITRADE

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Again, this is an open board, so I''m not seeing the limitation.

Additionally, there must be some employees who must discuss the issue so that the carrier can plan for any expansion/acquisition. Pieces don''t magically float down and land in their proper places by simply action of the wind.
 

wings396

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Aug 20, 2002
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Dream on. UAL's fifth freedom rights and slots at Narita will be the most covented gem. Besides the cost of acquiring them (and the costs of training, new facilities, etc etc)it would be a fierce battle to be the highest bidder. And not to mention NWA will be watching as to who their new competitor will be. And they too, would be interested in acquiring additional slots for future use. IF UAL sold this gem U chances of acquiring it are slim to none.

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Unless TPG already has their foot in the door and will take over UA's assets. Do you think for one minute that TPG just handed US over to RSA without a fight? It all happend too fast and easy. There has been a plan in place for months and it will unfold very soon. The first red flag should have been when Dutta showed up at TPG, and now all of the sudden he is on the new BOD of US......maybe now the picture will get a bit clearer for you...
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usfliboi

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Aug 20, 2002
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I do see the harm ! When we were down and out and close to death, we didnt like it when others did it and we shouldnt . Speculate if you will but you dont have to write it out for their employees can see it. They know whats up and its plain out ole respect by not doing it. For those of you u are u employees you know how it felt. For others well you wouldnt know other than what u have heard. If it were that important it would be speculated in the news etc. Fyi this uninted subject is being discussed on the ual board as well where it should be.