Compass Airlines to Operate 20 E175's

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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... and hardly unexpected.  Someone was going to bid to fly these aircraft after Eagle said "no, thanks."
 

700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
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Now the question is since they are owned by AA, who's certificate will they be under and who has the rights to the groundwork and maintenance?
 
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eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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If CP will be leasing them, why would it be any different from any other lessor/lessee relationship?  
 
The lessee is responsible for maintaining the aircraft, and arranging for the ground handling.  
 
On a lease return, the lessee is responsible for returning them in the condition specified by the lessor.
 

WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
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E is correct.

It is the same type of relationship as exists with other majors which own regional aircraft not flown by a wholly owned subsidiary. the regional carrier staffs and decides how they will be maintained. Ground handling may or ma not be a part of the contract but chances are that AA will want to handle them as mainline aircraft in out stations wherever possible because they will be used interchangeably as a small mainline aircraft.

In hubs, AA will undoubtedly negotiate with their own unions regarding handling them if agreements haven't already been made.


By owning them, AA has the ability to ensure they can be moved to other carriers as needed to ensure AA's feed which gives the performance requirements plenty of teeth.
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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Uh, no, AA won't undoubtedly negotiate with their own unions.  AA isn't into vertical integration to the same degree as DL is.
 
Compass gets to establish their own ground handling at both ends.  AA might have a preferred rate for handling Eagle marketed flights, but I'd expect to see them contract with Envoy.
 
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WorldTraveler

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AA will negotiate with its own unions if these flights are to be worked by AA employees.

If AA doesn't have labor agreements that allow it to ground handle where it is most efficient, then it is no surprise why DL is more efficient.

But again IN SPOKE STATIONS how many companies does AA have doing ground handling of AA coded flights? are there really SPOKE cities where AA mainline works part of the schedule and a regional carrier works the other part?

define scope as you wish.
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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Uh, no, WT. There is no negotiating to be done. Rates of pay don't change based on the airplane being worked...

Perhaps this is a change from how DCI is handled, but flights operated on someone else's certificate (including Envoy) aren't worked by AA unless that airline happens to contract for handling by AA. In some places, they will self handle, and there's really nothing stopping them from contracting with DGS or any other low bidder.

There were spokes where mainline and regional were handled separately below the wing. RDU, CMH and STL come to mind, and there may be others. Mainline is rarely the most cost effective provider, since cross-utilization isn't allowed for above and below wing tasks.
 
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WorldTraveler

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yes, that is different than the way DCI is handled.

DL makes the choice of who does ground handling for itself and its carriers.


you could have started and stopped with "mainline is rarely the most cost effective provider" and "... since cross-utilization isn't allowed..." in order to explain why the growth of large RJs at AA is exactly meeting the fears than many had when the pilot contract was amended in BK to remove the RJ restrictions that had kept AA as having the smallest regional carrier as a percent of total domestic ASMs of the then big 4 legacy carriers.

this might be a quick opportunity to review the list of large cities where AA (not pmUS) employees ground handle their regional carriers.
 

robbedagain

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Oct 13, 2003
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I do believe the reason compass is going to get the planes is bec the Eagle pilots said no and the company turned and said ok then no problem  anthr carrier will fly the planes..  
 

john john

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robbedagain said:
I do believe the reason compass is going to get the planes is bec the Eagle pilots said no and the company turned and said ok then no problem  anthr carrier will fly the planes..
It is call whipsawing bargaining
 

Kev3188

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Oct 5, 2003
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Right in the middle.
E--

Thanks for the info. I would think that at an AA station already staffed with FSC's it would make sense for them to handle these flights, if for no other reason that to offset fixed costs?



WorldTraveler said:
DL makes the choice of who does ground handling for itself and its carriers.
Easy to do without the inconvenience of a CBA getting in the way.

BTW, CP operated flights were part of our scope language at NW...
 

WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
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Kev,
be careful with your first statement. You are thinking exactly like DL mgmt.

When CBAs stand in the way of the most efficient operation, that is when the risk is greatest that mgmt. will take aim at overcoming those restriction.

The large RJs are as being used and scheduled like small mainline aircraft far more so than the small RJs were.

yes, I know that NW and its unions worked very closely to try to coordinate the introduction of large RJs at NW.... and they really did a pretty good job of working together on that issue.

I'm still waiting for examples of AA spoke stations where AA does not handle all AA and American regional flights regardless of the operator.