Convienient Covenants?

[Bob Owens]

Back in 2003 management claimed that they were "on the steps of the court" ready to file for C-11 if the unions did not agree to massive concessions despite the fact that they had over $1billion in cash. Well here we are 9 years later and after four years of dragging their feet we find that management is once again saying they are broke, only now they had $4 billion in the bank.

Back in 2003 the company claimed that despite the massive $1billion reserve of cash they were technically bankrupt because of a covenant they had on a loan that stipulated that they maintain a cash balance of more than $1billion or the lender could call in the loan. How much was the loan for? $800 million. Admittedly $200 million may be thin nowadays, doesnt seem that long ago that Crandal claimed that with a War Chest of just $500 million he could beat a pilots strike.

Back in 2003 I thought it was a scam, a company looking to feign financial distress agrees essentially to borrow and pay interest on money they cant use. Not only that but tie up an extra $200 million to boot! Then have the company use the fact that they are approaching an unrealistic threshold of always having over a billion in cash to squeeze concessions from their workers under threat of a "technical" bankruptcy.

Well here we are 9 years later and despite having $4 billion in cash management is claiming they are broke again, how much you want to bet that once again they have this huge sum of cash tied up in covenants of convienience?

 

[paul1]

Ok now we are over the door step. I don't see anyone running for the door. But the #### willn't hit the fan untill Wed.


And I'm sure of only one thing. You will still be posting here and more than likely spinning your web of BS

Gl to us

 

[FWAAA]

Even if your conspiracy theory made sense (and I'm not admitting it does), how do the paragraphs above get your members higher hourly pay or preserve benefits or their quality of life?

Ok, you're completely correct. How does that translate into more $$$ for those you represent?

If AA had $50 billion in cash in the bank, it could still qualify for Ch 11 bankruptcy reorganization. Bankruptcy protection is not limited to companies that are "broke," regardless of your definition of "broke."

 

[TWU informer]

Convient Bitchiing, on and on,

Stop bitching and admit you made a mistake.

You have now cost me over $16,000.00, my pension, my prefunding, isn't that enough?

What is it going to take for you stop? Do you want our first born to sell for GEO Pay for your members?

 

[exs]

Back in 2003 management claimed that they were "on the steps of the court" ready to file for C-11 if the unions did not agree to massive concessions despite the fact that they had over $1billion in cash. Well here we are 9 years later and after four years of dragging their feet we find that management is once again saying they are broke, only now they had $4 billion in the bank.

Back in 2003 the company claimed that despite the massive $1billion reserve of cash they were technically bankrupt because of a covenant they had on a loan that stipulated that they maintain a cash balance of more than $1billion or the lender could call in the loan. How much was the loan for? $800 million. Admittedly $200 million may be thin nowadays, doesnt seem that long ago that Crandal claimed that with a War Chest of just $500 million he could beat a pilots strike.

Back in 2003 I thought it was a scam, a company looking to feign financial distress agrees essentially to borrow and pay interest on money they cant use. Not only that but tie up an extra $200 million to boot! Then have the company use the fact that they are approaching an unrealistic threshold of always having over a billion in cash to squeeze concessions from their workers under threat of a "technical" bankruptcy.

Well here we are 9 years later and despite having $4 billion in cash the company has not threatened but has actually filed for bankruptcy, how much you want to bet that once again they have this huge sum of cash tied up in covenants of convienience?

Bob, you really need to stop wasting your time trying to explain anything. Its not your fault we went into bankruptcy. I read the tentative agreement, thought is was another S@#T T/A and voted no, I dont need your opinion or my hand held,(not like many here) to tell me how to vote. No one knows what would of happened if we voted yes or no.. so please stop. I solely blame the Company for being in Bankruptcy. I that's my opinion and not everyone will agree, maybe you should make a list of all the Bad decisions the company has made in the last 10 years to put us where we are today.

 

[Bob Owens]

Even if your conspiracy theory made sense (and I'm not admitting it does), how do the paragraphs above get your members higher hourly pay or preserve benefits or their quality of life? Ok, you're completely correct. How does that translate into more $$$ for those you represent?

Well, management is trying to spin this as some sort of catastrophic crisis instead of a calculated move to gain what they could not gain in negotiations. Look at how they have Informer beside himself ranting on every thread. See this for what it is and act accordingly.

If AA had $50 billion in cash in the bank, it could still qualify for Ch 11 bankruptcy reorganization. Bankruptcy protection is not limited to companies that are "broke," regardless of your definition of "broke."

Was that the intent of the law? Any company regardless of how much extra money they have can use the court system shred contracts that they dont want anymore and impose agreements on workers they could not get through the normal process's?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Was that the intent of the law? Any company regardless of how much extra money they have can use the court system shred contracts that they dont want anymore and impose agreements on workers they could not get through the normal process's?

As in a previous rant. The intent of this is to further lower the bar for pay and benfits in the airline industry. Previously we got raises because all the other airlines were way ahead of us in pay and benefits. American Airlines is no longer willing to match the competition in wages and/or benefits and are trying to force the entire industry to lower their pay and benefits to where they are now setting the bar. The example has been set. Refuse to negotiate in good faith and then run to a judge to get what you couldn't get the unions to agree to. Now we hear the same old song and dance. There will be accountability. This is a complete crock! It seems the only ones held accountable for stupid business decisions are the rank and file employees.

 

[DNTULSA]

The company holds ALL the cards.

Their high paid advisors will tell them all the concessions that United's, Delta's and Northwest's management got from their employees. AA management will ask for at least that much and probably some more.

The judge will give it to them.

damn.

DNTULSA

 

[TWU informer]

The company holds ALL the cards.

Their high paid advisors will tell them all the concessions that United's, Delta's and Northwest's management got from their employees. AA management will ask for at least that much and probably some more.

The judge will give it to them.

damn.

DNTULSA

JUST VOTE NO, WE WILL ASK FOR A RELEASE BROTHER AND GET RESTORE AND MORE!

 

[dfw gen]

Convient Bitchiing, on and on,

Stop bitching and admit you made a mistake.

You have now cost me over $16,000.00, my pension, my prefunding, isn't that enough?

What is it going to take for you stop? Do you want our first born to sell for GEO Pay for your members?
1113 (c - Your Worst Nightmare = And You Thought the T/A Was Bad!

are you really stupid enough to think that the $16,000.00 they put in your pocket last year would not be pick pocketed this year with interest? are you really stupid enough that with or without the ta you will still have your retiree medical and pension a month from now? dude you are dumber than your rants on here make you sound.

again thank god amfa did not get in with you i thought disagreeing with matt lorenzi was an act of stupidty you take the cake. on the subject of local 567 i have to throw the bull sh#t flag. i was there from day one a charter member. i was there when kozatec and orlando had the meetings at the holiday inn. i was there when the meetings were in the roanoke community center. i was theer when dan cunningham was president. matter of fact i was there during the infamous kozatec bathroom break meeting.i was ther when mark easton was on the board. dude a dissident a##hole like you would be remembered.i dont remember you being there

 

[Buck]

Wages ; do we still have x 1.677777?

 

[FWAAA]

Bob, you really need to stop wasting your time trying to explain anything. Its not your fault we went into bankruptcy. I read the tentative agreement, thought is was another S@#T T/A and voted no, I dont need your opinion or my hand held,(not like many here) to tell me how to vote. No one knows what would of happened if we voted yes or no.. so please stop. I solely blame the Company for being in Bankruptcy. I that's my opinion and not everyone will agree, maybe you should make a list of all the Bad decisions the company has made in the last 10 years to put us where we are today.

Let's save Bob some time so that maybe he'll have time to focus on activities that might help increase the low AA AMT hourly wages or minimize the cuts to benefits and quality of life issues or might help keep thousands of M&R employees working for AA (at the bases) by stipulating that every management decision for the past 10 years was a mistake. Besides, Bob and others have posted such lists more than once over the past decade. Let's not encourage him to duplicate his prior efforts.

And another thing: Have you ever made an imprudent financial decision? How about your spouse or your kids? They ever make a financial mistake? They ever buy something that turned out to be a costly mistake? I'm not talking about last week or last month - I'm talking about since your marriage or during your kids' entire lives. Do you still bring up those mistakes and hold those mistakes over their heads or do you act like an adult and forgive and forget? At some point, it might be healthy to do the same with respect to the mistakes you bosses made. Rehashing those errors ain't going to change anything. They won't cause those management pukes to pay up for their mistakes and they won't prevent AA from obtaining lower labor costs now that AA is in Ch 11.

I too blame the company for its current predicament. Management foolishly gambled that the labor costs at UA, DL, NW and US would not fall as far as they did in bankruptcy and that the workers at those airlines would more quickly recover their bankruptcy-imposed paycuts. AA management was wrong. I also blame management (and management at all other bankrupt airlines) for foolishly buying labor peace over the years (prior to 2002) by agreeing to ever-higher wages and less-productive work rules. AA management even agreed to raises for some workgroups AFTER September 11, 2001. What was management thinking? In the area of cost-control, management clearly failed. Repeatedly.

Management also completely failed to see fuel price increases on the horizon that would cause AMR to spend $50 billion for fuel after the 2003 concessions instead of the $20 billion that fuel would have cost at 2002 prices. If management had seen fuel prices exploding like that, they might have done things differently in early 2003.

But you know what? None of that solves your current problem.

 

[exs]

y

Let's save Bob some time so that maybe he'll have time to focus on activities that might help increase the low AA AMT hourly wages or minimize the cuts to benefits and quality of life issues or might help keep thousands of M&R employees working for AA (at the bases) by stipulating that every management decision for the past 10 years was a mistake. Besides, Bob and others have posted such lists more than once over the past decade. Let's not encourage him to duplicate his prior efforts.

And another thing: Have you ever made an imprudent financial decision? How about your spouse or your kids? They ever make a financial mistake? They ever buy something that turned out to be a costly mistake? I'm not talking about last week or last month - I'm talking about since your marriage or during your kids' entire lives. Do you still bring up those mistakes and hold those mistakes over their heads or do you act like an adult and forgive and forget? At some point, it might be healthy to do the same with respect to the mistakes you bosses made. Rehashing those errors ain't going to change anything. They won't cause those management pukes to pay up for their mistakes and they won't prevent AA from obtaining lower labor costs now that AA is in Ch 11.

I too blame the company for its current predicament. Management foolishly gambled that the labor costs at UA, DL, NW and US would not fall as far as they did in bankruptcy and that the workers at those airlines would more quickly recover their bankruptcy-imposed paycuts. AA management was wrong. I also blame management (and management at all other bankrupt airlines) for foolishly buying labor peace over the years (prior to 2002) by agreeing to ever-higher wages and less-productive work rules. AA management even agreed to raises for some workgroups AFTER September 11, 2001. What was management thinking? In the area of cost-control, management clearly failed. Repeatedly.

Management also completely failed to see fuel price increases on the horizon that would cause AMR to spend $50 billion for fuel after the 2003 concessions instead of the $20 billion that fuel would have cost at 2002 prices. If management had seen fuel prices exploding like that, they might have done things differently in early 2003.

But you know what? None of that solves your current problem.

FWAA, my decisions with my marriage do not cause anyone to lose their job, house or livelyhood. They effect my family directly, so those decisions have be thought out. So lets say I can't afford a car, lets buy it anyway. AA (lets lease and buy more Airplanes). I cant afford the electric bill lets leave on all the lights in the house. AA (cant afford the the fuel, lets hedge at the wrong time), I keep getting concessions, lets have more kids. AA (productivity is low, lets hire more employees and make our wages go up and lay them off later). Get the picture, if I ran my household the same way I would be in bankruptcy too. BTW we have been hosed plenty of times before 2002, But I agree, we need to move foward even its down a slope at 100 miles an hour.

 

[Bob Owens]

The company holds ALL the cards.

Their high paid advisors will tell them all the concessions that United's, Delta's and Northwest's management got from their employees. AA management will ask for at least that much and probably some more.

The judge will give it to them.

damn.

DNTULSA

Delta recently told their mechanics they are getting another raise, they were already ahead of us.
Uniteds max pay for an AMT will be just over $40 by July, they get 8 Holidays at 2.5x, 12 sick days per year, a 5% contribution to the 401k on all wages paid, a week more vacation than we get at each step, and the company is offering them a $75,000 early buyout.

 

[TWU informer]

We are now at the 11th hour of the 29th day and Bob Owens will exract the companies best and final offer in the morning.