Dave''s 6/20 message

[mrplanes]

Listen to it if you haven''t. I''ll paraphrase:

The 5% stays until we show a profit. And while I''m at it, we have 15 more jets that we need and we''re operating in a force majeure envoirnment. But we are keeping those jets, even though we could get rid of them. Just for you employees. But we might need to get rid of them. We just haven''t decided yet. Mostly because we are being nice guys. Although other airlines have parked jets we are going to keep these. For now.

Now let me interpret what he said:

Shut up already about the 5%. If you don''t, the 15 jets I am keeping will be gone because I say we are in a force majeure situation. And since I say it, it is true. And by the time a judge says it''s not true, the jets and jobs will be gone anyhow. You guys better understand that I will reshape this airline with or without you. I don''t really care about morale. This is about profit. And employees don''t make profit. RJ''s do. Check back next week to see if I park the 15 extra jets.

Yet another fine example of leadership. Un - freaking - believable.

mr

 

[DorkDriver]

1. This company is in business to make money, not support employees like a big welfare system. If we can''t make money, then just shut it down and pay the creditors. Free market ecomony, its a b!tch.

2. The war in Iraq is not over. Americans are still dying over there everyday. Don''t believe me? Pull your head out of your mainline butt and turn the TV on for a reality check.

There are some (a lot) of things Dave could have done to be more "employee friendly", but would anyone honestly vote for someone who was running for President if they said "I am going to raise your taxes even more"? The leadership at this company feels that the only way AAA can regain all the ground we lost over the past decade is to expand RJs through the express carriers because our costs are lower than mainlines. I don''t like it either, becuase someday I''d like to have a job flying the A330. In my opinion Dave has done the impossible: He saved this dying airline, and has given it a chance to not only survive but to come back as a strong competitor. Of course there is a change Dave is wrong and all of this was for nothing, but only time will tell.....

 

[Mike W]

I'll bet if Dave atempts to reduce fleet size below the 279 mark and it ends up in court,he'll find out he's not in a force majure situation.Why is it that US Airways is the only airline whining about the lasting effects of the war in Iraq?

 

[Mike W]

DorkDriver,
Yes,Americans are still dying in Iraq.That''s a terrible thing but do you really believe that the war is having any impact on the number of people that fly on this airline.I rather doubt it.Here''s a novel thought.How about some MARKETING! My guess is that a lot of people don''t even know that we are still in business.They saw we filed bankruptcy last August and figured we went away.BTW,the 279 aircraft mainline fleet was not some form of employee welfare.It was part of numerous contract agreements that were signed by Dave Seigel.Unfortunately,it doesn''t appear his word is worth any more than the paper he puts his signature to.

 

[A320 Driver]

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On 6/23/2003 10:17:06 AM DorkDriver wrote:

1. This company is in business to make money, not support employees like a big welfare system.


Now if you''ll pull YOUR head out Dork, you will see that the employees are not asking for extra, just what Dave agreed to. He has NO MORAL RIGHT to that 5%. It has put many U families over the edge financially. Maybe you don''t need the money, but after the massive pay and benefit cuts we''ve suffered over the last year, few have extra and many don''t have enough.

The war is over...this pay deferral should be as well. Nobody expects a "welfare" check from the company...just what they are due.

A320 Driver

GIVE IT BACK!!!!!

 

[flynomore]

I stopped listening the week TPA Maintenance was shuttered. What do you suppose his reaction would be if the logged calls to his little chats dropped? These type of people hate to be ignored. Unless he is doing something that PROMOTES our corporation, ignore him. Your blood pressure will thank you.

 

[wings396]

There are some (a lot) of things Dave could have done to be more "employee friendly", but would anyone honestly vote for someone who was running for President if they said "I am going to raise your taxes even more"? The leadership at this company feels that the only way AAA can regain all the ground we lost over the past decade is to expand RJs through the express carriers because our costs are lower than mainlines. I don''t like it either, becuase someday I''d like to have a job flying the A330. In my opinion Dave has done the impossible: He saved this dying airline, and has given it a chance to not only survive but to come back as a strong competitor. Of course there is a change Dave is wrong and all of this was for nothing, but only time will tell.....


Give me a break...first of all the RJ''s are not cheaper to operate than the mainline A/C. This is per our management.
Please stop blowing your Express horn at the Mainline employees expense. They made the deal to keep 279, now live up to it just as must with the Liquidation threat contract until 2008. If they want to break the 279 fleet size, we want our pre CH-11 wages back. The RJ''s may be the key to your future, but they are the destruction of many others. Maybe if the Express employees wouldn''t have worked without a union for crap wages all these years it would be different.

 

[PITbull]

----------------
On 6/23/2003 10:17:06 AM DorkDriver wrote:

1. This company is in business to make money, not support employees like a big welfare system. If we can't make money, then just shut it down and pay the creditors. Free market ecomony, its a b!tch.

2. The war in Iraq is not over. Americans are still dying over there everyday. Don't believe me? Pull your head out of your mainline butt and turn the TV on for a reality check.

There are some (a lot) of things Dave could have done to be more "employee friendly", but would anyone honestly vote for someone who was running for President if they said "I am going to raise your taxes even more"? The leadership at this company feels that the only way AAA can regain all the ground we lost over the past decade is to expand RJs through the express carriers because our costs are lower than mainlines. I don't like it either, becuase someday I'd like to have a job flying the A330. In my opinion Dave has done the impossible: He saved this dying airline, and has given it a chance to not only survive but to come back as a strong competitor. Of course there is a change Dave is wrong and all of this was for nothing, but only time will tell.....

----------------​

Hey Pal,

American military men/women are dying all over the world,for many, many years, where have YOU been. Do not cite that for the purpose of stealing the 5% from employees. Having employees IS NOT LIKE HAVING A BIG WELFARE SYSTEM, WE are the company, WE SAVED THE COMPANY. Siegel is not a "one man show". Try running a commercial airliner without any "rank and file" folks, go ahead...see if you ever make a single cent!

AND IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT EMPLOYEE MORALE, THAN RID YOURSELF OF YOUR HR DEPARTMENT AND LABOR RELATIONS DEPT, CAUSE YOU FOR SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED THEM.

And if you carry that line of thinking that we as employees get welfare, we would probably qualify with the state for many right about now...BUT IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO WELFARE, YOU FORGOT TO MENTION CORPORATE WELFARE, cause this management has had its hand out to the government twice for FREE TAX PAYER DOLLARS, and had their hand out twice to the employees, as well. If I screw my lenders and creditors by going into BK, I too could balance my budget at home...woouldn't you say? If I cheat everyone around me, and get away with it, I too could have money in my pocket, now would you say?

And if this management doesn't come up with a solution on July 1 for the sick policy, so THAT THE F/AS DON'T COME TO WORK SICK, then Picketing will commence this entire summer until we have a solution IN HAND! And picketing/leafleting is FOR FREE, no welfare system there.

If you have prospects to fly an A330, then you must be banking on a new Corporate Transaction, cause the "new" business plan has no growth potential for "mainline". The only thing you will fly in the future IS A NICE PRETTY RJ. Can you say Teensy weensy?

When and if the company tries for a "force majeure" reduction in fleet...THEN SEE YOU ALL IN COURT with the entire labor coaltion attorneys.

 

[ITRADE]

Can we avoid the use of the CAPS on a constant basis, please?

 

[ITRADE]

----------------
On 6/23/2003 3:05:35 PM PITbull wrote:

So, your the cry baby that has been complaining about my writing... I should have guessed.



----------------​

Uh no. You're thinking of somebody else. But I do understand your complete paranoia at this point.

I would complain, but frankly, you're not worth it.

 

[PITbull]

So, your the cry baby that has been complaining about my writing... I should have guessed.

 

[PITbull]

ITRADE,

Obviously, you just contridicted yourself. You just complained on the board publically. So, I must be worth it....

Here''s a complaint, can YOU TAKE your webpage OFF every single thread? It wastes space.

 

[PITbull]

fly2low,

My suggestion, get yourself and your union a "strike fund" that protects you for Chaos action in the future when your agreement is amendable. Have it written for "Flight pay loss" protection so that you are made whole at the end of the month. You need to fund this every month, every member...you have a good start, as these agreements will amend in approx 5 1/2 years.

You need to get ready. In the past, we had management teams in this industry that I believe were more reasonable and fair-minded when it came to negotiations. Labor has never been confronted with such "union busting" managements as they have today, since the Lorenzo and Icahn days, that literally destroyed airlines and the Industry. Industry has changed, and we as union members must change, as well. There is "no more Mr. nice guy".

Because of this drastic shift, it's time to go back to "hard core" union, and taking an "extreme" left position, in the future, until the equation achieves balance.

 

[flyin2low]

"Maybe if the Express employees wouldn''t have worked without a union for crap wages all these years it would be different."

All wholly owned and contractors pilots are represented by national unions. 8 out of 9 carriers are represented by the same union as mainline, ALPA. Unfortunately the level of representation has never been there for the little guys. As far as I can tell, it''s still not there.

The F/A''s are represented by the AFA, the same as PITBULL''s union. They start at a wonderful $14/ flight hour which converts to $6.60 for the non-airline employee. It''s make you wonder why they would put up with being away from home on 4 day trips and spending more than their per-diem to feed themselves.

The express employees are always going to get shafted by management. It''s just the way it is. You may say that they should stand up for their ''rights''. Well you can go ask ComAir pilots how far that got them in 2000.

 

[cat 111]

They love to threaten the employees.Lies and threats are what made this company what it is today.