Dear IAM

[freedom]

I was asked by one of my fellow co workers to say something about the upcoming negotiations between IAM 141 and US Airways .. I’ve spent the last few days trying to think of just what I want to say , and what my fellow co workers want to express , it’s hard to find words to say that haven’t already been spoken on this board , I think those of us on here have covered just about every US Airways subject imaginable from pie to DUI lol . Tomorrow on June 4th if my information is right we should be resuming talks over the transition contract . These are very delicate talks for both the East and the West sides of IAM fleet because we both are heavily invested in the respective outcomes . I’m not going to waste my breath going off on this company any further , they know where we stand with them , nothing I could write here will change that .
What I WILL write about is our union the IAM , First let me make it clear beyond doubt that I am not anti union nor do I support any ideas about jumping to another union …. However the more those of us on the west talk about things the more we end up scratching our heads in wonder . I find it sad that there is more communication between union brothers and sisters through this board than there is on our own union webcite , which rarely seems to get updated other than the occasional update telling us that negotiations are not progressing ….. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen that same announcement just worded differently . I’ve been told by our reps that this is “going to take time “ … you know I remember hearing that BEFORE the merger when we were still TWU here in the west . To quote an outspoken west ramper to a senior manger “ I’d like to get my money BEFORE I start getting my social security checks “ . I hear we are paying some of our IAM reps 100,000 a year for their services… When I heard that figure I nearly shat myself . Let’s see.. Hmm let me think here , what have you done for those of us on the west lately ….. Hmmmmm ….. Oh that’s right , nothing ! Now of course I understand that we now have a pension through the IAM , but you know what , I’m more worried about feeding myself today than 20 years from now , and I know you handle our grievances , but to be very honest , here in PHX the majority of the people fired are usually the lazy ones who don’t make an attempt to do their jobs , I’m not talking about strong union brothers and sisters who are just DOING THEIR JOBS and nothing more … I’m talking about the new guys who are sleeping through their shifts missing the flights …
Not only do you not communicate well with us , or do much of anything for us , but when we do show up to the union meetings , we end up having to wait 40 minutes before anything US Airways related even comes up … When I used to go to the old TWU meetings , it was ONLY about us , I didn’t have to listen for 20 minutes while the gate agent from southwest airlines complains about some minor working condition that’s popped up that they don’t like . Let me be honest , when I was sitting there listing to this I’m thinking “ what the hell do we care? We want to see you go under “ .If it were OUR gate agents that’s another matter , but south west and our competitors ? Give me a break . At the old TWU meetings you could scream at the union president if you had a problem , during the IAM meetings your too afraid to speak up because it’s so damn formatted and ridged . I had problems with TWU , but at least you knew where to find them , I don’t think the IAM even has offices here in PHX …
This leads me my major point , if you don’t do much of anything for us , why are we paying you so much money ? I’m starting to wonder when the next election is coming up , not because I want to run , but because maybe it’s time to put people in their who will OPEN up the IAM , I’m talking about democracy …My view is this , if we are electing our fellow rampers then why are they making 100 K ? Even topped out no ramper would make that much in a year , We should pay them a topped out salary and perhaps 20 K more than that , so about 65 K a year rather than 100 K . With all that extra money we could open up an actual office here in Arizona for the IAM … I think that would help with the communication problems ..
As for getting something done , I’ve been reading about government here in our country , and it turns out that nothing helps more in getting something done than getting rid of the people who weren’t making things happen . It kinda serves as an example to the ones who come after them , that if you don’t produce you don’t have a job ….
I think that sums up our feelings on the West , I’m not too sure how the guys in the East feel about the IAM leadership and the job they‘ve done thus far , perhaps they love you to death , and so you should have nothing to fear from my ramblings , you know , maybe I’m just some crazy lone crackpot that’s unhappy with the way things are …. But if I’m not alone , if I’m not crazy , and members of 141 on the East and the West feel like I do ….. Then your days maybe numbered …



DO SOMETHING.

 

[700UW]

First of all do you really now that it takes TWO sides to reach an agreement, is it too hard to comprehend the company is not interested at all in obtaining a transition agreement?

Second, the IAM has a local lodge office in PHX, also do you realize there are only what five AGCs for fleet and they have to cover EVERY single city where fleet is served?

Third, the IAM represents just more than one airline, every one is entilted to give their updates at the union meetings, I for one found it interesting of the going ons at the other carriers.

Fourth, the membership at the district conventions vote on the bylaws and the reps salaries, so the money they are paid is set by the membership. Also would you like to live out of a suitcase and hotel rooms and not get homecooked meals four or five days a week?

I no I did not when I was in DCA four or five days a week, living in a hotel and away from my family during negotiations.

Fifth, why dont you call out the company, they are the ones causing the delays, they are the one who backed out of arbitration and went back to bankruptcy court to stall the arbitration which in turn stalled contract negotiations.

Sixth, what have you done to make things better, effect change and get involved?

Don't expect five guys to try and make a differance when they get no support from the membership.

 

[freedom]

Oh i've done my part , but the IAM hasn't live up to it's end of the bargain , you see only NOW do i know they have an office in Arizona , it would be nice if that were more widely proclamied ...

Yes it DOES take two sides , and yes i DO know the company has been dragging it's feet , but rumor has it that our union has too..

Aww i feel so bad for you guys who get paid 100 K , you have to live out of hotel rooms and travel all the time ! that's horrible! geez if you hate it so much , why don't you let another ramper fill your job , i know ALOT of people who wouldn't mind working out of the buring SUN all day , and i'm sure there are many on the East who'd like to get out of the snow ... As for these convetions with the by laws , if my memory serves me right , didn't they have the last one here in arizona , in some very small very VERY out of the way town ?

IAM reps alot of airlines , that's great , i think TWU did as well , but we still felt like we were our OWN individual union , that was a GOOD feeling, it made alot of us who went to the meetings realize that if we didn't do it , no one would for us .

We've called out the company , now were calling out the IAM ... it's your turn to shine in the spot light where all your faults are revaled .If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen .

 

[delldude]

IAM reps alot of airlines , that's great , i think TWU did as well , but we still felt like we were our OWN individual union , that was a GOOD feeling, it made alot of us who went to the meetings realize that if we didn't do it , no one would for us .

Excellent point but you must know yourself that in most cases,the involved constitute a huge minority.What does one do to get others involved? Lead by example I'd think....great leaders make greater involvement.Only involvement at the grassroots level with those interested local leaders who decide to move into national positions will ever effect change no matter what unions we mention.I feel unions today must change as their declining numbers reflect this.Hopefully,you may be part of the change that is needed.Involvement,it has to start with one person.

 

[diogenes]

Membership involvement is important, but not the solution, in and of itself.

When fleet members got involved, and then, by the rules, questioned some decisions handed down from above,and, by the rules, tried to initiate change, they got their heads handed to them.

D141 is not responsive to the membership at large until some portion of the membership tries to effect change. Then they get plenty responsive - "Off with their heads!"

I'd say membership participation is 1/2 the equation. The other 1/2 is responsive leadership, and the way IAM stacks the Slate, I have serious doubts we'll see that anytime soon.

I'd bet the farm if you accurately polled 141 members, they'd indicate they wanted leadership change.

The disparity between poll results and election results is the surest indicator of just how stacked the deck is.

 

[delldude]

Membership involvement is important, but not the solution, in and of itself.

When fleet members got involved, and then, by the rules, questioned some decisions handed down from above,and, by the rules, tried to initiate change, they got their heads handed to them.

D141 is not responsive to the membership at large until some portion of the membership tries to effect change. Then they get plenty responsive - "Off with their heads!"

I'd say membership participation is 1/2 the equation. The other 1/2 is responsive leadership, and the way IAM stacks the Slate, I have serious doubts we'll see that anytime soon.

I'd bet the farm if you accurately polled 141 members, they'd indicate they wanted leadership change.

The disparity between poll results and election results is the surest indicator of just how stacked the deck is.

I see your point....but then if you let it end there....remember how you eat an elephant...one bite at a time.You're giving a prime example of the old school over-ruling the masses....if your people let it end there...then it ends....don't forget,squeaky wheel gets the grease!The deck is only stacked until all decide to do something to change it.If you think IAM stacks the slate,i'd say some should work to effect change and it won't be easy.Get people into Placid Harbor....learn...learn..learn.
Remember,can't never did anything..

 

[diogenes]

True enough, Dell - it's a freakin' shame you have to push union leadership around.

 

[Bob Owens]

First of all do you really now that it takes TWO sides to reach an agreement, is it too hard to comprehend the company is not interested at all in obtaining a transition agreement?

Why would they? The IAM already gave away the store and pretty much everything I said was going to happen did.

Second, the IAM has a local lodge office in PHX, also do you realize there are only what five AGCs for fleet and they have to cover EVERY single city where fleet is served?

And WHO determines how many AGCs there are? How come the union adopts the "more at lower pay" philosophy for the members but "less at higher pay" for themselves?

Third, the IAM represents just more than one airline, every one is entilted to give their updates at the union meetings, I for one found it interesting of the going ons at the other carriers.

IAM reps are getting paid to be there, however most people have to work two jobs(thanks to union promoted concessions) and when they go to meeting they are doing it on their time and at times that are determined at the convience of the union and they really dont want their time being wasted on issues not related to them.

Fourth, the membership at the district conventions vote on the bylaws and the reps salaries, so the money they are paid is set by the membership.

What exactly is a "district Convention"?

Also would you like to live out of a suitcase and hotel rooms and not get homecooked meals four or five days a week.

That depends on how good of a cook the wife is I guess, Filet Mignon five nights a week isnt really such a big sacrifice.

I no I did not when I was in DCA four or five days a week, living in a hotel and away from my family during negotiations.

I'll bet you didnt starve either.

Fifth, why dont you call out the company, they are the ones causing the delays, they are the one who backed out of arbitration and went back to bankruptcy court to stall the arbitration which in turn stalled contract negotiations.

Because the company doesnt work for him, the Union does.

Sixth, what have you done to make things better, effect change and get involved?

I've headr that before, if the people running the show had any intentions as far as change they woulddo it, however when you have guys with GEDs making $100,000 plus other perks they will do anything they can to preserve the status quo.

Don't expect five guys to try and make a differance when they get no support from the membership.

Support from the membership? They pay their dues dont they? What support do they need, do you mean that they should support these guys by voting in the first round of concessions so they dont trouble the union with having to have a revote?

Lets face the facts here, Union reps, the ones with the power who could change things choose not to. Why? Because they are not the ones losing benifits and taking paycuts. Their biggest concern is not making things better for their members but preserving the dues base that provides their salaries and perks. They then claim the members dont support them, well maybe thats because they havent presented anything to the members worth supporting or maybe its because they have never really been specific as to what they want the members to do. STOP BLAMING THE MEMBERS for the fact that the leaders dont lead!!!

The fact is its the union leaders who dont support the members, not the other way around. The members provide financial support, what do the leaders do for them? They collect dues and give excuses, the members are getting a bad deal, they deserve better. Empty union halls are not the problem, lack of vision and leadership ability is the problem.


Freedom, until airline workers think as a group, across corporate boundries, and act like a group, all you are going to get for your dues are excuses. The only way I can see things getting better is for the whole industry to organize under a single union. The greatest weapon the airlines have is our non-portable seniority system. It makes us sitting ducks. The fix for that is to make seniority portable and the only way to do that is to get into one union.

 

[700UW]

If 20 persent of your AGC's weren't busy defending themselves from criminal prosecution then maybe they would have more time to be involved with the rank and file and get them enegized and involved.

Apparently you dont read well either. First of all only ONE AGC has been charged in the case, the IAM is not defending him in the criminal case.

There are only four or five US Fleet AGCs.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[diogenes]

1 indicted AGC/5 total AGC's representing D141 Fleet = 20%.

Don't let the facts get in your way!

 

[The End]

Freedom,

Welcome to the iam. As long as I've been with the iam, some 20 years, it has always been this way. They are only interested in getting the dues money and will sell you out in a heart beat to keep their $100k jobs. Another thing they do is always set themselves in a position that makes you feel like it's not a good time to oust them ie; dragging out negotiations or grievences. It is all self serving. Make no mistake. As far as information goes. Forget about it. Everything is a secret. They hide behind bogus confidentiality clauses to keep you in the dark so they can make their little deals with the company.
This is just my opinion but alot of other people feel the same.
Good luck in trying to effect change. Many have tried. Perhaps you'll be the one. The End

 

[Q2DETX5]

Lets face the facts here, Union reps, the ones with the power who could change things choose not to. Why? Because they are not the ones losing benifits and taking paycuts. Their biggest concern is not making things better for their members but preserving the dues base that provides their salaries and perks. They then claim the members dont support them, well maybe thats because they havent presented anything to the members worth supporting or maybe its because they have never really been specific as to what they want the members to do. STOP BLAMING THE MEMBERS for the fact that the leaders dont lead!!!

The fact is its the union leaders who dont support the members, not the other way around. The members provide financial support, what do the leaders do for them? They collect dues and give excuses, the members are getting a bad deal, they deserve better. Empty union halls are not the problem, lack of vision and leadership ability is the problem.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

 

[freedom]

Looks like the IAM doesn't have too many supporters ... My message then to the IAM , if you hope to maitain the status quo then you had better DO SOMETHING .... other wise we're gonna start to get rowdy out here ...

The same could be said to the company today ... we're tired , so tired of the B/S we have to put up with day in and day out ... DO SOMETHING ....

 

[Justaramper]

I’m not talking about strong union brothers and sisters who are just DOING THEIR JOBS and nothing more … I’m talking about the new guys who are sleeping through their shifts missing the flights …

Is it really the responsibilty of the Union to make sure the employee does his/her job on a daily basis.? If a shop steward has to babysit new employees, it takes away from his/her duties. But, if the flight takes a delay, management will easily find out who was loading/unloading the flight and doing the job.

Yes, structure is needed at union meetings, you would be there twice as long, if you went over daily operational problems or gripes amongst employees.

Being involved does require a donation of your personal time. But, you will become a target of debate, as the decisions you make, may not be the beliefs of others.

 

[freedom]

Is it really the responsibilty of the Union to make sure the employee does his/her job on a daily basis.? If a shop steward has to babysit new employees, it takes away from his/her duties. But, if the flight takes a delay, management will easily find out who was loading/unloading the flight and doing the job.

Yes, structure is needed at union meetings, you would be there twice as long, if you went over daily operational problems or gripes amongst employees.

Being involved does require a donation of your personal time. But, you will become a target of debate, as the decisions you make, may not be the beliefs of others.

No it's not the responsiblity of our the union to hunt down the guys not doing their jobs ,yes the company does do that , when i wrote that i was implying that the people who are getting termintated for the most part are the ones who deserve it , that was part of my statment where i said that the union doesn't do much for us , in relation to the greviance process . So to say it simpler , the guys getting fired usually deserve to get fired , so when IAM takes up the greviance process on their behalf which is going to end with them getting fired it's not some huge favor the IAM is doing us .

As for the union meetings , yes we do need structure , but let me compare contrast our old TWU meetings with the ones they have now under iam .. The old twu meetings would take place over at our old HQ for the union in tempe , you'd walk in the union reps would say hello to you , you'd talk to your fellow co workers from the airport and the meeting would start , the ONLY people in the room were america west ramp workers , thats the ONLY subject covered in the meeting ... so in actuallity i think these new IAM meetings take longer because you have to sit there and listen to every single IAM rep from each different airline and each group within that airline , IAM gate agent rep from southwest will stand up then give a report , then the IAM fleet rep , then the IAM mec rep... then they will move over to northwest and repeat the process . Sure it's cost effctive to do all these different unions under one roof , but it's boring and takes up MORE time than the old meetings , not to mention that it's less personal because you don't know these people in the union meetings ... In my mind the IAM union meetings are less like a union hall and more like somesort of report to a coroprate board .

I wish everyone pulled their weight and dontated their time rather than just bi#$h . Sure making decisions will cause debate , but sometimes it's just nice to see foward motion .


now i'm just sitting here waiting , hoping to maybe for once hear some good news from the IAM today ... :unsure: