Delta pilots appear to win seniority arbitration over NW

[FWAAA]

Will NW pilots pull a USAir-East on Delta? Or will they respect the "binding" part of binding arbitration?

The seniority list for Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots and their counterparts at Northwest Airlines Corp. will be integrated based on each pilot’s status and the type of aircraft they fly, an arbitration panel in New Orleans ruled late Monday.

In June, leaders of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) union for Delta and Northwest agreed to a process to integrate the seniority list for the pilot groups.

In a letter to Delta pilots posted on the union Web site late Monday, Delta ALPA Chairman Lee Moak wrote: “The award is constructed on the foundation of a ‘ratioed status and category’ methodology with a rational treatment for the minor attrition differences that exist between the two pilot groups.â€￾

Pilots at Northwest generally have greater seniority than Delta pilots because many senior captains at Delta left the airline when it entered into bankruptcy in 2005. According to the Associated Press, lawyers for Delta pilots argued in a closed door hearing that seniority should be determined based on pilot status and aircraft category, while the Northwest pilots’ lawyers said the lists should be based on a pilot’s hiring date.

http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisvil....html?ana=yfcpc

Hope it works out smoothly for all concerned.

 

[Dignity]

Will NW pilots pull a USAir-East on Delta? Or will they respect the "binding" part of binding arbitration?



http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisvil....html?ana=yfcpc

Hope it works out smoothly for all concerned.

Interesting.
I had a brief discussion with someone regarding this situation and apparently it was balanced(both groups maintained relative seniority within 1 percent)..there was no real winner here for either group.
to my understanding there are 5 year fences put up on International aircraft, NW fences for 747 and 787 and DL fences for 777.. however if any aircraft substitutes a 747 those positions will go to NW pilots.

 

[North by Northwest]

Will NW pilots pull a USAir-East on Delta? Or will they respect the "binding" part of binding arbitration?



http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louisvil....html?ana=yfcpc

Hope it works out smoothly for all concerned.

Deleted by Moderator. Personal attack. Note to all: Discuss issues, not people. Personal attacks/namecalling against another member are not permittted. USAviation.com is a public bulletin board and all forums are open to all members. If you do not like what another member posts, object to their post, not them. Otherwise, use the ignore feature. It works very well. Thank you.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

G O O D !!

I'm GLAD it looks liked they're gonna get SCREWED !!

WHY ?

Because NW NEVER needed this PHONEY cooked up "DEAL." The one NW group(the pilots), the STRONGEST group who could have stopped this ABORTION dead in it's tracks, threw their lot IN WITH the conspiritors, Anderson and Stealin' .

Now(hopefully) they will pull a LLC/HP move. ANYTHING to keep NW...............NW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(DUMB..DOPEY....BAST**D'S) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey,

As the Great Yogi Berra always said,

"IT ain't OVER till it's OVER" !!!

 

[North by Northwest]

Luke...am sending you a pm with some info for you to share.

 

[North by Northwest]

I am not the topic. The topic is the seniority arbitration between DAL and NWA pilots.

If you have a problem with my postings on USAviation.com, contact a moderator.

I ask you to cease and desist from discussing ME when I'm not the topic. Am I clear?

Well then ...you should "cease and desist" from injecting your personal FLAME BAIT opinion (especially when you don't want them replied to). Is that CLEAR enough for YOU?

 

[Dignity]

I tend to feel the title of this thread is a little misleading.

if both groups maintained the ability not to bump each other(currently keeping what they are flying) and fences put up to protect each others International aircraft with NW pilots also having the ability to secure 100 percent any new slot on any aircraft that replaces the 747 and that may also possibly include the 787(which means any aircraft including a 777 that is used to replace a 747) how is the other group winning?

it seems the formula used kept pilots in their seniority range, junior stayed junior and senior stayed senior(relative seniority). we must keep in mind pilots are a totally different group than flight attendants/non-pilot employees because pilots are limited to specific aircraft/pay associated with that aircraft.


until an actual pilot comments, I tend to think someone claiming victory is a bit silly(especially if they arent even a pilot)

 

[FWAAA]

Interesting.
I had a brief discussion with someone regarding this situation and apparently it was balanced(both groups maintained relative seniority within 1 percent)..there was no real winner here for either group.
to my understanding there are 5 year fences put up on International aircraft, NW fences for 747 and 787 and DL fences for 777.. however if any aircraft substitutes a 747 those positions will go to NW pilots.

That's good to hear.

Northwest pilots argued for Date of Hire and Delta pilots argued for the ratio-based result that was the core of the decision. On that basis, Delta pilots prevailed.

If nobody's 100% happy, then that's a very good thing that could prevent any of the nonsense that's plagued the pilot groups at US for the past couple of years.

 

[dapoes]

Luke...am sending you a pm with some info for you to share.

Why are you not sharing with the rest of the class? :angry:

 

[metopower]

I tend to feel the title of this thread is a little misleading.

if both groups maintained the ability not to bump each other(currently keeping what they are flying) and fences put up to protect each others International aircraft with NW pilots also having the ability to secure 100 percent any new slot on any aircraft that replaces the 747 and that may also possibly include the 787(which means any aircraft including a 777 that is used to replace a 747) how is the other group winning?

it seems the formula used kept pilots in their seniority range, junior stayed junior and senior stayed senior(relative seniority). we must keep in mind pilots are a totally different group than flight attendants/non-pilot employees because pilots are limited to specific aircraft/pay associated with that aircraft.


until an actual pilot comments, I tend to think someone claiming victory is a bit silly(especially if they arent even a pilot)

I doubt that anyone will declare victory on the SLI. The stated purpose was to come up with a fair solution not a victory. Your interpretation of the award is misleading. 777's or 787's are not classified as replacement aircraft and the scope of the award addresses only 777,787,747.
A diplaced 747 pilot can not displace to 777 as well as 777 can not displace to 747 or 787.....a330 or 767-400 or 767-300 are not covered .

 

[Dignity]

Am I clear?

 

[Dignity]

That's good to hear.

Northwest pilots argued for Date of Hire and Delta pilots argued for the ratio-based result that was the core of the decision. On that basis, Delta pilots prevailed.

If nobody's 100% happy, then that's a very good thing that could prevent any of the nonsense that's plagued the pilot groups at US for the past couple of years.

prevailed?

to my understanding it was a balanced decision, maintaining 1 percent relative seniority meaning they stayed in their seniority range and fences to protect each others International aircraft for 5 years. Neither group prevailed.

 

[dapoes]

Edit Note: Previous post quoted has been deleted.

During closed-door hearings before the panel, a lawyer for Delta argued that Delta pilots' seniority list should be merged with Northwest based on pilots' status and aircraft category, while a lawyer for Northwest pilots insisted the fair and equitable method would be to merge the lists based on pilots' date of hire.

Someone needs some blood pressure meds...

 

[dapoes]

prevailed?

to my understanding it was a balanced decision, maintaining 1 percent relative seniority meaning they stayed in their seniority range and fences to protect each others International aircraft for 5 years. Neither group prevailed.

It does seem to be a very fair outcome for both groups.

 

[FWAAA]

prevailed?

to my understanding it was a balanced decision, maintaining 1 percent relative seniority meaning they stayed in their seniority range.

Yes, prevailed. NW pilots argued for DOH, and DL pilots argued for the result that was adopted.

I just located another article from last night that agrees with my characterization of the outcome:

An arbitration panel ruled Monday that the seniority lists of Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines pilots should be integrated based on pilots' status and aircraft category.

The three-member panel's decision, which affects roughly 12,000 pilots, is binding and effective immediately. The ruling, at least as far as methodology, appeared to be a win for pre-merger Delta pilots.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081208/delta_north...ilots.html?.v=2

Had the arbitration panel ruled that Date of Hire would control, I suspect that many would label that a "win" for the NW pilot group.

As I posted above, if the fences and other details make the decision palatable to the NW pilots, then great! Perhaps the integration won't be the complete disaster that's happened at US.