Delta trying to compete with LCC's

swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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Doesn't add up and the intro fares have no options.  Nice try Delta but it will not work.  Delta's cheapest price is still higher than LCC's.  Add in all the fees and cost for baggage and other charges will still be higher than any LCC. Just more confusion for the customers who THINK they are getting a good deal.  This out just hours after Delta's announcement of their new 5 tier level of ticket choices.  NTD, now get back to the drawing board;
 
New ‘basic’ airline ticket is worse than any low-fare carrier option
 
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You just don't understand or see the big picture.  Customers will be so overwhelmed with the strategicness of it all that they will readily buy the crapshoot tickets that allow no changes or services (other than a middle seat next to the largest traveler on the plane).  And. think how it will boost the moonthumbs per available seat gallon ratios.  (I LOVE that bogus statistic.  It's my all time favorite.  Thanks, Chock Jockey!)
 
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I guess it is lost on swamt that WN is frequently higher than other carriers, even when factoring in baggage charges which not all customers want or need.

It's a free market. If DL's product is attractive to some customers, then customers will decide what is best for themselves. and there are product attributes that DL offers that might be more valuable including the number of flights that DL offers and DL's reliability compared to what what they give up - which is the potential to have to check a carryon bag at the gate at no charge.

and the economy basic fares are targeted at ULCCs, not LCCs.

you do realize that all of the publicity that DL is receiving only helps to advertise that DL will be competitive with any carrier that comes along. thanks for doing your part to help DL.
 
swamt said:
Doesn't add up and the intro fares have no options.  Nice try Delta but it will not work.  Delta's cheapest price is still higher than LCC's.  Add in all the fees and cost for baggage and other charges will still be higher than any LCC. Just more confusion for the customers who THINK they are getting a good deal.  This out just hours after Delta's announcement of their new 5 tier level of ticket choices.  NTD, now get back to the drawing board;
 
New ‘basic’ airline ticket is worse than any low-fare carrier option
The "low" fare option isn't really to compete with LCCs as much as it is to give PAX a chance to un-bundled fares. 
Personally I would probably be the person to use this. I rarely check bags and am generally pretty flexible. The only issue I would have is the lack of assigned seats. 
 
and the way Delta is kicking WNs butt I would assume they have pretty close costs. 
 
robbedagain said:
that level tier crap DL is doing in March looks to me like itll be a flop  
I don't know how it will work out. On one hand I see the logic, on the other I also see it having a great chance a being a flop. 
 
I like the idea that things were very streamlined, yet still varied enough to apply to a lot of different demographics.

Bin space wars aside, this just seems unnecessarily complex. Guess we'll see how it goes...
 
since the vast majority of people have no idea what fares will fall under the economy basic category other than what delta.com advises (or other sales channel), it's not likely there will be any way to know if it works or not.

Either customers buy the fare and DL pushes the competition back a notch or two or DL just pulls the fares and no one knows because people don't know what fares are in what markets and when anyway.

DL has had fares that were non-refundable, didn't allow advance seat assignments, and have been non-refundable.

there is nothing about these fares that hasn't existed before.

the only difference is that all are being combined into a single package at the same time.

and the whole package was tested together.
 
WorldTraveler said:
since the vast majority of people have no idea what fares will fall under the economy basic category other than what delta.com advises (or other sales channel), it's not likely there will be any way to know if it works or not.

Either customers buy the fare and DL pushes the competition back a notch or two or DL just pulls the fares and no one knows because people don't know what fares are in what markets and when anyway.

DL has had fares that were non-refundable, didn't allow advance seat assignments, and have been non-refundable.

there is nothing about these fares that hasn't existed before.

the only difference is that all are being combined into a single package at the same time.

and the whole package was tested together.
"HOW NICE"
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL has had fares that were non-refundable, didn't allow advance seat assignments, and have been non-refundable.

there is nothing about these fares that hasn't existed before.

 
 
sorry once again you have the facts wrong - the new fare difference this time is it's use it for the exact flight or lose it - that is different than non-refundable - in today's airfare world - you can change a flight and use what is left over after change fees towards the new fare - the new fare - it's use it or lose it (for the exact flight) - so this is not just packaging fares
 
Even the ULCC's allow you to change your flight it's just expensive to do so (except WN)
 
It will drive customer to buy new tickets and allows DL to sell the seat twice if someone wants to change flights - many times it's cheaper to buy a new ticket anyways instead of changing a flight and paying change fees
 
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story - someday you will make a good newspaper reporter
 
They should make some good revenue here
 
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There's also the issue of services onboard.  When the people in row 428 (who have to pay for a drink of water) see that the people in row 427 get complimentary soft drinks, this is not going to be good for public relations.  The fact that row 428 paid half of what row 427 paid is of no consequence to these people.  What they know and see is that the row in front of them got something "free" that they are having to pay for.  And, don't think that people won't be po'd.  I still encounter coach passengers on occasion that are upset that the people in the front cabin got a "free" meal.  We haven't had meals on a tray in coach since shortly after 9/11!  Within the rank steerage seats, just wait until a f/a in a forgetful moment of compassion gives a row 428 or higher passenger a cup of water so they can take a pill.  All hell may break loose among the other steerage seats.
 
Airline within an airline--particularly on the same a/c in the same cabin--has never been successful.  We (AA) have that Main Cabin Extra for which people pay extra.  However, as soon as the door closes if there are empty MCE seats (and there almost always are), people from the "common" main cabin seats move to them.  So what have we gained?
 
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jcw said:
 
sorry once again you have the facts wrong - the new fare difference this time is it's use it for the exact flight or lose it - that is different than non-refundable - in today's airfare world - you can change a flight and use what is left over after change fees towards the new fare - the new fare - it's use it or lose it (for the exact flight) - so this is not just packaging fares
 
Even the ULCC's allow you to change your flight it's just expensive to do so (except WN)
 
It will drive customer to buy new tickets and allows DL to sell the seat twice if someone wants to change flights - many times it's cheaper to buy a new ticket anyways instead of changing a flight and paying change fees
 
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story - someday you will make a good newspaper reporter
 
They should make some good revenue here
Another difference to point out is the intro fares are not connected with any kind of options what-so-ever.  Although all customers will still have to pay the extra fees, baggage and "other" add-ons, you still cannot get any options with these fares. Thus after the all in rate is tallied, Delta still cannot beat LCC pricing...
 
jimntx said:
There's also the issue of services onboard.  When the people in row 428 (who have to pay for a drink of water) see that the people in row 427 get complimentary soft drinks, this is not going to be good for public relations.  The fact that row 428 paid half of what row 427 paid is of no consequence to these people.  What they know and see is that the row in front of them got something "free" that they are having to pay for.  And, don't think that people won't be po'd.  I still encounter coach passengers on occasion that are upset that the people in the front cabin got a "free" meal.  We haven't had meals on a tray in coach since shortly after 9/11!  Within the rank steerage seats, just wait until a f/a in a forgetful moment of compassion gives a row 428 or higher passenger a cup of water so they can take a pill.  All hell may break loose among the other steerage seats.
 
Airline within an airline--particularly on the same a/c in the same cabin--has never been successful.  We (AA) have that Main Cabin Extra for which people pay extra.  However, as soon as the door closes if there are empty MCE seats (and there almost always are), people from the "common" main cabin seats move to them.  So what have we gained?
I agree with your passengers noticing other passengers getting something for free.  I remember (as you already know) watching F/A's take the cash, say $10, for a drink and returning the $10 as if giving the change back to hide the fact from other passengers.  Some times passengers don't get it and try to tell the F/A she or he did wrong.  Once I had to explain to one and he was like, well why would she want to hide it from other customers?  I had to explain that someone near by was not getting anything for free most likely do to their attitude, and quite possibly, in a round about way, may have paid for his drink, if you know what I mean.  Now days the credit card is handed back with nothing to sign and usually a wink.  
 
There's also the issue of services onboard.  When the people in row 428 (who have to pay for a drink of water) see that the people in row 427 get complimentary soft drinks, this is not going to be good for public relations.  The fact that row 428 paid half of what row 427 paid is of no consequence to these people.  What they know and see is that the row in front of them got something "free" that they are having to pay for.  And, don't think that people won't be po'd.  I still encounter coach passengers on occasion that are upset that the people in the front cabin got a "free" meal.  We haven't had meals on a tray in coach since shortly after 9/11!  Within the rank steerage seats, just wait until a f/a in a forgetful moment of compassion gives a row 428 or higher passenger a cup of water so they can take a pill.  All hell may break loose among the other steerage seats.
 
Airline within an airline--particularly on the same a/c in the same cabin--has never been successful.  We (AA) have that Main Cabin Extra for which people pay extra.  However, as soon as the door closes if there are empty MCE seats (and there almost always are), people from the "common" main cabin seats move to them.  So what have we gained?
your assumption is wrong.
there is no difference in onboard service on DL. There are no economy basic seats. The FA won't know who paid what fare - just like yesterday.
water, Coke, and punts, pretzels, or cookies are all free for all.
since AA doesn't provide that much for full fare coach passengers, you wouldn't understand.
 
From the original link:
 
"Delta’s new five-tiered model instead wants to get most of the upselling accomplished during the ticket purchase phase. The hope is that customers are so scared off by the absence of getting an advance seat, upgrade, or the option to change a flight that they’ll readily pay more upfront."
 
Though we only offer soft drinks, juice, water, coffee, and tea complimentary in coach, all of the above can be accomplished with a fee (or not in some circumstances).  AFAIK, every passenger regardless of fare category can check in for their flight online up to 24-hours in advance and select a seat.  With my luck of getting placed next to Man (or Woman) Mountain, I want to be sure I have an aisle seat.