DL cuts W11 Flights

[700UW]

As per 20AUG11 GDS timetable display, List of DELTA’s Winter 2011/12 European Service Reduction as follows.

Additional changes remain possible:

Atlanta – Brussels 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
Atlanta – Dublin 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
Atlanta – Madrid 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
Atlanta – Manchester 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
Atlanta – Stuttgart 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
New York JFK – Rome
25SEP11 – 28OCT11 Boeing 767-300ER replace Airbus A330-300
29OCT11 – 23MAR12 Service CANCELLED

Previously mentioned Trans-Atlantic Changes:
Atlanta – Amsterdam Airbus A330-300 continues operation in W11, same as W10. Service extends to Mumbai
Atlanta – Barcelona 5 weekly 767-300ER service (previously planned Daily)
Atlanta – Dusseldorf 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
Atlanta – London Gatwick
01OCT11 – 29OCT11 Reduce from Daily to 6 weekly
30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly

Atlanta – Milan Malpensa Winter operation reduced from 5 weekly in W10 to 4 weekly in W11
Atlanta – Moscow Sheremetyevo 02SEP11 – 24MAR12 Service Cancelled
Atlanta – Munich Boeing 767-400ER continues operation in W11
Atlanta – Paris CDG DELTA operating 2 Daily while Skyteam member AIRFRANCE operates 1 Daily, same as W10
Atlanta – Rome Planned A330-200 service from 30OCT11 to 04JAN12 canceled. Service operates with 767-300ER for entire Winter 2011
Atlanta – Zurich 29OCT11 – 23MAR12 Service Reduction from Daily to 5 weekly (Previous was 6 weekly), except 19DEC11 – 25DEC11 and 01JAN12 – 08JAN12
Boston – London Heathrow Boeing 767-400ER continues operation in W11, previously planned to be replaced by -300ER
Chicago – Paris CDG 5 weekly 767-300ER service, replace AIRFRANCE A330-200
Detroit – Amsterdam DL248/249 operates with Boeing 767-300ER, replace planned A330-300 (A330-200 in W10). Overall service is 2 Daily A330-300 and 1 Daily 767-300ER
Memphis – Amsterdam 03OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 4 weekly. 767-300ER operating
Newark – Amsterdam 29OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly
New York JFK – Amsterdam Boeing 767-300ER continues operating in W11 (A330-200 in W10)
New York JFK – Athens 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
New York JFK – Barcelona 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
New York JFK – Berlin Tegel 03SEP11 – 23MAR12 Service Cancelled
New York JFK – Brussels Boeing 767-300ER replace 757-200 in W10
New York JFK – Copenhagen 12SEP11 – 23MAR12 Service Cancelled
New York JFK – Dublin Winter service operates with Boeing 757, previously planned 767 cancelled (757 in W10)
New York JFK – Frankfurt 30OCT11 – 03JAN12 Boeing 767-300ER operating, replace 757
New York JFK – Madrid 30OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, Boeing 767-300ER operating
New York JFK – Manchester 10SEP11 – 23MAR12 Service Cancelled
New York JFK – Milan Boeing 767-400ER operates Daily service in W11, compared to A330-200 in W10
New York JFK – Moscow Sheremetyevo Boeing 767-400ER replace -300ER (-300ER in W10)
New York JFK – Nice
29OCT11 – 08JAN12 Reduce from Daily to 4 weekly
09JAN12 – 23MAR12 CANCELLED

New York JFK – Prague Winter season operates 5 weekly, same as W10 (previously planned Daily)
New York JFK – Shannon Winter service CANCELLED (4 weekly 757 in W10)
New York JFK – Stockholm 06SEP11 – 23MAR12 Service Cancelled
Philadelphia – Paris CDG 01SEP11 – 23MAR12 Service Cancelled
Pittsburgh – Paris CDG 28OCT11 – 23MAR12 Service Cancelled
Portland OR – Amsterdam 01OCT11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly
Salt Lake City – Paris CDG 01NOV11 – 23MAR12 Reduce from Daily to 5 weekly, same as W10 (Previously planned Daily)


What a shame. This is a huge reduction. What will happen to all those free 767's?

 

[WorldTraveler]

You apparently are out of the loop ... this was announced months ago by Skyteam as a coordinated effort to reduce TATL capacity. Not all of the cuts from all of the Skyteam members have been released but the list is pretty close to being finalized.
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You might also want to know - if facts matter to you - that the percent of DL cuts at JFK and CO cuts at EWR are very similar. The difference is that CO flies many routes wiht double daily flights during the winter so they can downgrade a market without exiting it. JFK during the winter to Europe is a very low yielding market which is why DL is keeping many of those markets that have service to ATL operating.
Yields via ATL are high enough and there are enough connecting opportunities that DL can afford to operate many of the flights given the higher fuel prices.
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You also failed to note in your copy and paste from airlineroute that other airlines are doing much of the same cutting.
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And you also failed to copy the restart of many of these same flights beginning in the spring.. some of them as early as March 1... and until then, you might want to look for the additional flights which are being - and will be added - to non-European destinations during the winter.
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oh, and DL has another year of aggressive cabin refurbishment coming up this year.... I believe the 744 and part of the 763 fleet is supposed to be upgraded this winter.
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Sounds to me like DL has every intention of sitting out the weak revenue environment and come back ready to make money when it makes sense to do so....
and in the next few weeks there will be several new routes announced for next summer.

 

[700UW]

Ah Mr Delta speaks again.

This is about DL's cuts, nothing to do with CO or any other airline, now is it? Stick to the topic at hand.

Do you wear Delta Airlines Underoos too?

They wont send out all the planes at one time for cabin upgrades, that is a lot of airplanes to be paying for that wont have a role in flying.

Planes on ground, not flying do not earn revenue, they add to costs.

D E L T A good, E V E R Y O N E else is bad and incompetent, we get it, you beat it like a a dead horse.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Except that you are incapable of seeing anything as a simple business transaction and instead turn into a contest about personalities... perhaps because you are incapable of either understanding the business for what it is or because you would rather just pick any fight regardless of whether it makes sense or not.

Given that you engage in some of the same endless shouting matches w/ other people on other subjects, I think there is a fair amount of the latter.
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If you understood DL's cuts as part of the broader industry trend to cut capacity - both domestic and int'l - in light of high fuel prices and where that capacity cannot be profitably filled, then you would post what other carriers are doing on balance and you would also note that much of the capacity cuts are seasonal.
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When you decide that you want to rationally discuss the topic, we can have a decent conversation... but I doubt that is what you are really interested in.... you are simply trying to throw mud and can't stand that there are rational, impersonal explanations for actions which you want to try to paint as partisan and signs of impending doom.
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For those that may not be familiar, the site at the link below does a very good job of tracking schedule changes throughout the industry.
it doesn't take scrolling down very far to find similar winter service changes for other carriers similar to what 700 posted for DL, including significant changes to TATL and intra-Europe, esp. northern Europe, schedules regardless of the nationality of the carrier.... as well as continued changes within Asia as a result of the continued recovery from the Japan disasters.
http://airlineroute.net/

 

[tech2101]

You apparently are out of the loop ...

Tip:

If you want people to engage in dialogue, do not start your post with a statement like the one above.

 

[WorldTraveler]

tip -
if individuals want to engage in dialogue, then they don't come bringing one sided facts in an attempt to try to win a personal shoving match.
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Dialogue starts with two people who are willing to rationally discuss information and positions respectful of each other....
when one person sets the tone of the conversation, I will carry it where they have taken it and discuss it on that basis... if they wish to recognize their initial bias and return to a position of dialogue, I will follow.
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It also doesn't change the fact this news is several months old and airlineroute reports cumulative route changes for all carriers.. thus, it is absolutely fair to say that the party is either out of the loop or isn't really interested in dialogue.

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f he started with "I just saw this list of cuts/route modifications - (note that his list are not all cuts), have I missed these announcements and the discussions about what is DL going to do with all of those planes and people that won't be flying", then there is the basis for a dialogue. And if he were really interested in a dialogue, he would say, "I saw the same post about UA and US just a few days before, some involving European and Asian carriers.... apparently the skies are going to be a lot less crowded this winter..." and there would be the basis for a dialogue.

But it's doubtful the party in question wanted a dialogue - so the rest of us don't have to worry about it.

I personally have little tolerance for people who use their emotions instead of intelligence to argue.
There is not a subject on this forum that can't be rationally discussed... ditching whatever facts apply to a subject and resorting to childish opinions will result in the appropriate response.

OTOH, I have all the respect in the world for people who can debate a point quite different from mine and who are not afraid to present their side of the discussion - without
resorting to childish actions. I have close friends that I have made via the internet and with whom I have vastly different perspectives, yet I have huge amounts of respect for them and for their positions because of the manner and intelligence with which they discuss very important subjects.

 

[700UW]

Wow, pot meet kettle, you are the most one sided Delta Cheerleader on this board, this board is slow so you post on AA and US and constantly talk about Delta on threads of other airlines that have nothing to do with Delta.

Take your own advice bub.

In the world according to WT, Delta is God and every other airline, its management and employees are the scum of the earth.

And I bet there are plenty of posters like me who can point out your M.O. all the time.

 

[eolesen]

UW, just use the Ignore function already...

 

[gizmo_sc]

That is pretty heavy cut for MISS DELTA she must be feeling the PAIN. Look at it this way on those 5 day service levels the crew that takes over the last flight has a damn nice LAYOVER.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

New York JFK – Prague Winter season operates 5 weekly, same as W10 (previously planned Daily)

With ATL-PRG discontinued at the end of August (I believe), and OK having no TATL lift of their own, I would have thought that JFK-PRG might remain daily, even in the winter with a downgrade to a B767 instead of A330. Does the tourist traffic drop off so drastically that the route cannot be flown daily? Afterall it is SkyTeam hub-to-hub route.

 

[WorldTraveler]

700,
I slight no one for being a cheerleader for anything... in fact, I have friends who I encourage to develop themselves to more effective fight for the positions that matter to them - even if they are opposite of the ones I support. I am not afraid of defending my views in the court of global opinion and I encourage others to do the same - as long as they can do so intelligently.
You can be honest or not, but I don't really think you started this topic with the intention of noting the schedule changes that DL has made, comparing them to the rest of the industry, or connecting them w/ the trends that are going on in the industry. I am quite sure that you posted solely as an attempt to take a swipe - and as such the response I provided is appropriate. The fact that you have yet to acknowledge that you selectively picked out a single post out of a website that is full of cuts shows me that you aren't really interested in discussing the issue.

Being a fan is not the issue... using flimsy or nonexistent logic or badgering people is.

Frugal,
since OK is not a part of the Skyteam TATL joint venture, there is less incentive for AF, DL, KL, or AZ to send traffic over PRG than over the other hubs.
PRG is also one of the most easterly Skyteam hubs which means there are more opportunities to connect more traffic over AMS, CDG, and yes JFK - on which the Skyteam JV partners equally share revenue.
Also, the website under discussion will show that OK has made a number of cuts in their own service to PRG.. and because it is a fairly small hub, many connections don't work in both directions off a single TATL flight.

Gizmo,
the yardstick for where pain is occuring will be when the next round of financials come out... .you might recall that despite saying long before the most recent quarter's financial results were released that they intended to reduce TATL because yields were weak, DL turned around and reported TATL RASM growth that was above that of carriers' that have chosen not to reduce near as much capacity. You might also note that the Star JV carriers are also cutting capacity across their networks....
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The airline industry is a for-profit enterprise. If reducing capacity is what it takes to maintain sufficient financial results, then that is what should be done, regardless of whether a few folks on the internet don't get it.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Frugal,
since OK is not a part of the Skyteam TATL joint venture, there is less incentive for AF, DL, KL, or AZ to send traffic over PRG than over the other hubs.
PRG is also one of the most easterly Skyteam hubs which means there are more opportunities to connect more traffic over AMS, CDG, and yes JFK - on which the Skyteam JV partners equally share revenue.
Also, the website under discussion will show that OK has made a number of cuts in their own service to PRG.. and because it is a fairly small hub, many connections don't work in both directions off a single TATL flight.

Oops, didn't realize OK is not a part of the TATL joint venture. IMHO, kind of a kick in the gonads to not be a part of the TATL joint venture despite being a 10-year member, wheras AZ gets in ASAP.

A little bit off topic: I think it is interesting that KE manages to fly 4x weekly a B747 to PRG during the summer (downgraded to B777 in the winter). I would have thought there would be more traffic between USA - Czech Republic vs. South Korea - Czech Republic. And the arrival times for connections aren't that great. Furthermore, I always thought that PRG and OK could rival VIE and OS (and to a smaller degree WAW and LO) as a hub for eastern Europe and former Soviet Union. I know Aeroflot is part of Skyteam but I still cannot rate them above 3rd world (not aircraft but corporate culture and service).

 

[WorldTraveler]

as you probably are aware, AF has offered to buy equity in OK but the Czech gov't has said they are not interested in selling out... AF did invest in AZ which led to AZ's addition to the JV.
I can't keep up w/ all of the changes in Europe but I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that LH owns part of Austrian. Remember also that VIE has long had a larger position of connecting the west and eastern Europe than PRG has had... due in part to politics.
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not sure of the schedules at PRG connecting from Asia but geographically the opposite is now true... PRG is 200 miles closer to ICN than AMS and 400 miles closer than CDG... PRG is 400 miles further from JFK than CDG or AMS. While JFK-FCO is longer than JFK-PRG, the Italian market is much larger.
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Not sure what OK's future is in Skyteam... but both seem happy with what they have right now... or at least don't seem to think they can find a better "deal" anywhere else.
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oneworld has BUD, Skyteam has PRG, and Star has VIE...central Europe has a decent place in all three alliances.

 

[goneflyin]

While I will miss layovers in Budapest, Berlin, Malaga, and the rest this winter, I REALLY like getting profit sharing checks. The economic situation in Europe is dire, and the high-yielding traffic simply isn't there.

There is no point in Delta losing money there just for the sake of prestige. I would have liked to see a reduction of service to those cities rather than cessation, but that's because I like a good 72 hour layover.

 

[WorldTraveler]

well said, goneflyin.

700,
you might also want to consider that DL is engaged in a pretty aggressive construction project at JFK... I was just there a little over a week ago and it was obvious that the new concourse DL is building onto T4 is significantly impeding the flow of traffic - and the repositioning of aircraft. As such, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason JFK took such a big hit in flights was to create more room for construction over the next several months - I noticed they have alot of framework up and are probably trying to get the project to the place where they can do above ground work through the winter.
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But most of the capacity has already been announced as coming back in the spring...