DL offering early retirement to about 50 pilots as four 747s are retired

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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From Yahoo! news:
 


Delta Air Lines Inc. is offering early-retirement incentives to pilots including those who fly the Boeing 747 as it prepares to ground four of the jumbo jets later this year.
 
Delta said Wednesday that it will accept retirement offers for up to 50 pilots, who have until the end of October to apply. The airline has about 11,000 pilots.
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-pilots-offer-early-retirement-222336736.html
 
I'll bet we see more early retirement/early out packages at all three big legacies, in addition to the UA flight attendant offer that broke earlier this week.   Younger workforces are much cheaper, and without much opportunities for real growth, the next best way is to entice the older workers to leave so they can be replaced by younger (cheaper) employees.   
 
FWAAA said:
From Yahoo! news:
 
 
 
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-pilots-offer-early-retirement-222336736.html
 
I'll bet we see more early retirement/early out packages at all three big legacies, in addition to the UA flight attendant offer that broke earlier this week.   Younger workforces are much cheaper, and without much opportunities for real growth, the next best way is to entice the older workers to leave so they can be replaced by younger (cheaper) employees.   
FWIW Delta is offering an early out for all non-union frontline employee right now. 
 
From what we have been told we can basically expect one every year from now on. They aren't overstaffed but it helps lower cost. Heck the FA and pilot classes are as full as they can be. 
 
 
but i am a little confused, is it for 744 pilots only? if so I bet some of the 777 guys are going to be pissed.......... 
 
Good point.  The article is probably poorly-written and might not accurately convey the details, but it does say "pilots including those who fly the 747,"   implying that the offer may be to very senior pilots (who generally fly the biggest planes).    It doesn't say "exclusively to pilots of the 747."  So it could very well be that some 777 or A330 pilots depart early if they satisfy Delta's offer criteria.   
 
FWAAA said:
Good point.  The article is probably poorly-written and might not accurately convey the details, but it does say "pilots including those who fly the 747,"   implying that the offer may be to very senior pilots (who generally fly the biggest planes).    It doesn't say "exclusively to pilots of the 747."  So it could very well be that some 777 or A330 pilots depart early if they satisfy Delta's offer criteria.   
I would assume it going to be 50 most senior guys who will take it. 
 
Your right. But the first 25 are 747 pilots to reduce training costs. Then the next 25 are in seniority. 777 is more senior the 747 .Only people that are inclined to go are are those in the last 2 yrs of employment. 777 guys are not pissed in the least.747 pilots can displace to anything but the 777.
 
meto  Im surprised that the 777 is more senior than the 47    is that due to the fact DL had the 777s longer than the 744s?
 
I don't know that the 777 is more senior -- I seem to recall a fence being put in to prevent the senior NWA guys from displacing less senior DL guys.
 
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eolesen said:
I don't know that the 777 is more senior -- I seem to recall a fence being put in to prevent the senior NWA guys from displacing less senior DL guys.
I thought metopower is a DAL pilot. I would think he knows what the DALPA seniority list looks like.
 
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eolesen said:
I don't know that the 777 is more senior -- I seem to recall a fence being put in to prevent the senior NWA guys from displacing less senior DL guys.
. Not quite... I'm on the 777 and it is just the opposite...I'd be under number 20 on the 744 yet I'm around number 50 on the 777 . Not very many 777 Capt. would downgrade to the 744... It's old and the trips are not very good.There is a fence but it is just the opposite. The pre NW pilot wanted the fence because they believed that the DL pilots wanted to go to the 744. We were glad to give it to
them.
 
Glenn Quagmire said:
I thought metopower is a DAL pilot. I would think he knows what the DALPA seniority list looks like.
Thanks
robbedagain said:
meto  Im surprised that the 777 is more senior than the 47    is that due to the fact DL had the 777s longer than the 744s?
No... Most of the former NW 744 pilots are in the 1982 to 1985 range the DL pilots are in the 1979 1981 range...I'm a 1977 hire
 
OK, I got the direction wrong, but the point is there's a fence, and targeting an early out at only those inside the fence isn't going to ruffle as many feathers as it would be to target a fleet type not fenced off.
 
At the risk of cross pollinating, I think this & the UA F/A early out are just the start of a flood of similar programs. As 'Dawg noted, DL offers one, but I think the pressure will be on to begin "matching" these ones as far as what's offered. From my observer's perch, it seems that serious cash & medical what gets people's attention today-and gets them to hit the exit- and not necessarily things like pass travel.

metopower said:
. Not quite... I'm on the 777 and it is just the opposite...I'd be under number 20 on the 744 yet I'm around number 50 on the 777 . Not very many 777 Capt. would downgrade to the 744... It's old and the trips are not very good.There is a fence but it is just the opposite. The pre NW pilot wanted the fence because they believed that the DL pilots wanted to go to the 744. We were glad to give it to
them.
 
 
metopower said:
ThanksNo... Most of the former NW 744 pilots are in the 1982 to 1985 range the DL pilots are in the 1979 1981 range...I'm a 1977 hire
Good info, and thanks for adding it in here. Does the pilot CBA have any language touching on early out's, or is this all outside of it?
 
the fence ends at the end of the year. The timing of the first groundings of the 744 comes right before the fence comes down.

Part of the reason for the higher seniority on the 777 at DL compared to the 744 for NW might have been not only because of the longer trips on the 777 but also because the 777 was a smaller percent of the total DL int'l fleet (and overall fleet) than the 744 was for NW.

DL just ended an early out program for non-pilot personnel and they have had one at least every two years since 9/11. DL typically gets a minimum of a couple thousand employees per offer.

Early outs are effective ways to incentivize middle age and senior workers to leave a little earlier.

The real savings come from reducing medical expenses as well as being able to replace senior workers with lower scale employees.

The actual positions for most DL employees that take the position now will be replaced although more generous programs (including retiree health care) were offered post 9/11 to reduce the workforce.
 
Kev3188 said:
At the risk of cross pollinating, I think this & the UA F/A early out are just the start of a flood of similar programs. As 'Dawg noted, DL offers one, but I think the pressure will be on to begin "matching" these ones as far as what's offered. From my observer's perch, it seems that serious cash & medical what gets people's attention today-and gets them to hit the exit- and not necessarily things like pass travel.  Good info, and thanks for adding it in here. Does the pilot CBA have any language touching on early out's, or is this all outside of it?
No. This is counter to historical aims of the seniority list. So each is negotiated individually. I can see that in future contracts this will have to be addressed. Because of the fence which ends in January , and the ability to volunteer for a junior pilots displacement some believed that the damage would have been done on the 330. Even without the fence most of those pilots would go there because they could not hold the 777.