DL tests "basic economy" fares DTW-FLA

[WorldTraveler]

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/morning_call/2012/04/delta-offers-basic-economy-seating.html?ana=yfcpc

Presumably helps increase the ability to compete with ultra low fare carriers.

 

[USFlyer]

I'll be curious to see how this goes. US tried something similar many years ago and it didn't go well. Times have changed, though, so who knows.

 

[Kev3188]

I predict a disaster come boarding time. Families will buy these and assume that "no seat changes" doesn't apply to them. Once on the plane, they'll start working the crowd to get everyone to play musical chairs so they can all sit together.

Separately, I find it odd that DL is now chasing the ULCC crowd. I get that these aren't exactly high fare markets, but Anderson & others have been very clear that they have no interest in chasing junk yields, or competing with NK, etc. This runs directly counter to that.

 

[eolesen]

Sounds like Metrojet and DLX without the separate branding...

 

[WorldTraveler]

The difference of course is that DL is trying to separate passenger amenities on the same aircraft.... given that premium passengers receive a different set of amenities than "normal" economy passengers, the segmentation is being extended - this time by taking away a few things. The challenge will be trying to educate employees and customers that not everyone in the same cabin will receive the same amenities.....
yes, Kev, there will be challenges in educating both pax and employees that some things are part of the amenities and some are not, and that includes not being afraid to tell passengers that if seat selection is important, they need to pay in advance for that service. Of couse there will be people who will end up w/ more than they are entitled but that is also undoubtedly part of the test process.
As for the markets, DL is testing them from DTW to Florida which all the more argues that the target is NK. Given that they are in a high-growth period, I would imagine this is something of a strategic move to let NK know that DL will do what it has to do to protect their markets.
OTOH, I doubt if DL will use this product in ATL where WN is pushing their "added value" with the same fares.
In markets like NYC, it could add another lower fare level which could be helpful in moving share from other carriers, esp. during typically offpeak seasons/flights. DL just recently said something on a conference call about adding back some of the discount booking classes that PMDL had in its res system but which the PMNW inventory mgmt system did not support so the extra classes were removed - and are now being added back. This initiative may be one of several ways DL will take advantage of its increased ability to segment fares.
One needs only to look at UA in DEN to see what happens when a carrier doesn't or can't be competitive w/ discount carriers - and F9 and WN both aggressively grew in the early 2000s when UA was financially weak. Now, UA has about 30% local market share in DEN and continues to pull the hub down.
It doesn't make sense to chase ULCCs in markets that don't matter - but Republic and then NW was flying DTW to Florida long before Spirit (in its present form) showed up. DL has to defend all of the markets in its hub that matter or the AMS and GRU etc markets suddenly are at risk as the profitability of the domestic segments declines.
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Kev,
if you hear info about the test, please share it with us.

 

[tech2101]

The difference of course is that DL is trying to...<snip>...
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Kev,
if you hear info about the test, please share it with us.

Geez WT.

You could have saved the environment some serious bandwidth on that post.

Please explain why Delta, the god of all airlines in this cycle, feels the need to cater to this crowd.

Please try and do it in less than 100 words.

Thanks!

 

[tom barry]

I predict a disaster come boarding time. Families will buy these and assume that "no seat changes" doesn't apply to them. Once on the plane, they'll start working the crowd to get everyone to play musical chairs so they can all sit together.

Separately, I find it odd that DL is now chasing the ULCC crowd. I get that these aren't exactly high fare markets, but Anderson & others have been very clear that they have no interest in chasing junk yields, or competing with NK, etc. This runs directly counter to that.

Kev, I agree on both points.
As for boarding time, more than likely the Gate Agent "should" be able to relate to the bretheren, unless she dumps it on the poor unsuspecting Southern Belle flight attendant ! h34r:
Those "NO" voting F/A's will be PRAYING they had a Union when this SHITE goes down !

Assuming there IS no seat changing, how'd you like to be stuck in a middle seat between TWO I-Pods drownding out the PA system, while playing GANGSTA Rap "Music" ????

MONIQUE could make a great "piss your pants" movie out of this.
SOUL Plane II anyone

I'd pay $$$ to see this fiasco unfold.

I wonder why "DICK" didn't kick off this special from ORANGE COUNTY CA. to Fla.

 

[signals]

I'll be curious to see how this goes. US tried something similar many years ago and it didn't go well. Times have changed, though, so who knows.

If the slot-swap is any indication, I'm guessing Delta will make it work.

 

[Kev3188]

Sounds like Metrojet and DLX without the separate branding...

+1

Exactly, just on a smaller scale...

Kev, I agree on both points.
As for boarding time, more than likely the Gate Agent "should" be able to relate to the bretheren, unless she dumps it on the poor unsuspecting Southern Belle flight attendant ! h34r:

...Which is exactly what I predict will happen. They'll ask at the podium, the gate agent will say "NFW," and they'll try again anyway, once in the cabin.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Geez WT.

You could have saved the environment some serious bandwidth on that post.

Please explain why Delta, the god of all airlines in this cycle, feels the need to cater to this crowd.

Please try and do it in less than 100 words.

Thanks!

and which of your 45 words contributed ANYTHING to the discussion?
Please try to participate in the DISCUSSION as you'll note Kev and E are doing - and they aren't rubberstamping anything DL is doing.

...Which is exactly what I predict will happen. They'll ask at the podium, the gate agent will say "NFW," and they'll try again anyway, once in the cabin.

since these are Florida flights, the chances there will be extra seats will be a lot lower.
It won't be the first time that unseated families weren't seated together - and while people traveling by themselves might switch an aisle for another aisle to help said family, I don't see anyone sitting in a middle seat to help out a family.
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The purpose of this fare is be able to compete effectively with other airlines, something DL and NW both have a long history of doing what is necessary to protect their markets - something other legacy airlines have not done near as well.

 

[eolesen]

Doesn't matter if nobody moves, Tim. The fact remains it's just pushing a problem onto the aircraft for the FA's and other customers to deal with.

If I'm paying $500 for a walk-up fare to MCO, I'd be pretty pissed off to find out I have to wind up babysitting Bubba, Jr. or Bubbette in the adjacent middle seat simply because their parents were snookered into "basic economy"

 

[WorldTraveler]

Since you've already said you wouldn't fly DL, I wouldn't waste your time worrying about DL's problems. It would seem that your hands are full right now trying to defend yourself from AA labor - while both telling us that you have already spent $5000 this year on travel but you don't fly AA domestically - which is where they are most at risk, instead choosing to fly WN.
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Yet you don't mind expecting other people to have flown AA to be able to comment on AA's problems.

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All the metrics indicate that DL is running a good operation including being able to compete effectively against low cost carriers which DOES include involve knowing what fares to be competitive and what not to walk away from.
Note that DL's corporate revenues continue to rise and its revenue production is out performing the industry - which would indicate that more and more companies are apparently willing to give DL their hard-earned money so that DL can provide service of an above average quality.
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Once again, the customers don't walk on the plane without seat assignments - they will have one just like every other customer. You apparently have a hard time grasping that concept... and the fact that since the advent of air transportation there have been plenty of customers who have not ended up w/ the seat they desired.
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It's also worth noting that DL actually has the following disclaimer on the initial internet search page of Delta.com ABOVE the fare.
BASIC ECONOMY
Nonrefundable
No Changes
Seats assigned at check in.

Basic economy fare results are presented in a total separate column of the fare search results - separate from economy and first/business class.

Before you can enter your passenger data, there is yet ONE MORE SCREEN on which you have the option to upgrade to a standard economy fare and obtain seat selection.

It's also worth noting that DL displays the TOTAL PRICE on the FIRST PAGE of the results. SO does UA (using the OLD CO website). AA's website does not show the total price, even though the US DOT asked airlines to be prepared to do this months ago.
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Maybe the reason why DL can segment its services is because it has invested in the technology to deliver the results - and anyone who can read can apparently grasp the concept.

 

[Kev3188]

Speaking of being able to "grasp" things, the issue isn't that someone won't get a seat assignment, but rather that they'll get one they don't like/isn't by the rest of their party/etc. They'll try to move anyway, and that's when the fun'll start.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Speaking of being able to "grasp" things, the issue isn't that someone won't get a seat assignment, but rather that they'll get one they don't like/isn't by the rest of their party/etc. They'll try to move anyway, and that's when the fun'll start.

The issue seems to be that the assumption is that some people can't figure out how to survive with things that are not everything they want.... the reality is that LOTS of people have had seat assigments in less than ideal locations on the plane and at times separated from family.
FAs and gate agents have plenty of experience in handling those types of situations...
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The concept is that DL is offering a product that DOES NOT offer seat assignments until check-in and they make that fact very clear during the purchase process.
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This is a test... and if the test were being offered in your city, you could probably throw your 2 cents worth in... I'm quite sure DL is asking the employees involved their perspective on the passengers - and probably asking some of the passengers as well because that is what good market testing does.
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The fact that DL added functionality to delta.com to handle economy basic indicates it wasn't a flash in the pants decision - yet it is still in test.
If you are aware of specific information that can provide insight into how the test is working, I'm sure they want to know.
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What remains true is that DL is thinking about lots of possibilities regarding its services... it clearly won't get every product or service right but continuing to believe that what is offered today is good for everyone and can't be improved upon is a recipe for financial disaster.
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The airline industry is rapidly changing... you can either lead and stay ahead of the changes or be run over by them.
It would appear that DL is trying to ensure it remains not only competitive but able to grow its revenues... its financials of late indicating it is doing a pretty good job in that regard.

 

[tech2101]

and which of your 45 words contributed ANYTHING to the discussion?
Please try to participate in the DISCUSSION as you'll note Kev and E are doing - and they aren't rubberstamping anything DL is doing.

The purpose of this fare is be able to compete effectively with other airlines, something DL and NW both have a long history of doing what is necessary to protect their markets - something other legacy airlines have not done near as well.

I asked you a simple question, and you answered it. Was that so hard?

I don't see why they need this fare "to compete efecctively with other airlines." You have opined time and again that DL does not need to do these types of things to compete in the markets that you continue to say they dominate because of their superiority in all things airline.