Dl's Hky/atl Service To End

[Phantom Fixer]

A few weeks ago DL has announced that their ASA Affiliate flights between HKY (Hickory, N.C.) and ATL will be ending at the end of November 2005 , siting weaker than hoped for passenger loads.

ASA has been operating 50 Passenger CRJ's on this route...with only about 25% of the capacity being used.

For those new to U's former East Coast affiliate operations...HKY was at one time a 5 Flight per day destination between HKY and CLT with 19 Seat Jetstream 31'32's and 36 seat Shorts 360's at one point.

The former US affiliate was CCAir (dba) USAirways Express. CCAir was bought by the MESA Air Group in 1999...and from that point forward the operations decreased until the doors were finally closed in 2002.

DL's desire to cease operations to and from HKY has hit a snag. Yesterday the FAA told DL that they were in violation of the 90 day rule...and DL has stated that they will now continue the 4/5 flights per day to ATL until Jan 22 2006.

HKY is only 51.9 miles from CLT...so hopefully the few flying from HKY will now return their welcomed business to USAirways out of CLT.

HKY Mayor Rudy Wright is already in talks with other carriers to fill the void that DL/ASA is leaving them with.

I find it very unlikely that any of the former USE cities once served by CCAir / USE will ever see revenued service in the near future , if at all? :unsure:

 

[ringmaruf]

I don't think it'll help much. I mean, no one was flying the DL service, so there aren't many customers to steal back. Can't hurt, though.

I find it very unlikely that any of the former USE cities once served by CCAir / USE will ever see revenued service in the near future , if at all? :unsure:

HKY, ISO, INT, RWI are just too close to other US cities. 37-seaters would be too big, and 19-seaters can't make money anymore with the higher pax weights.

The one city I think would work if US returned to it is SOP (Southern Pines/Pinehurst). Especially with US service to golf markets and all, I think SOP could work with 3x or 4x Dash 8 to CLT. Won't happen, though.

 

[Phantom Fixer]

I don't think it'll help much. I mean, no one was flying the DL service, so there aren't many customers to steal back. Can't hurt, though.
HKY, ISO, INT, RWI are just too close to other US cities. 37-seaters would be too big, and 19-seaters can't make money anymore with the higher pax weights.

The one city I think would work if US returned to it is SOP (Southern Pines/Pinehurst). Especially with US service to golf markets and all, I think SOP could work with 3x or 4x Dash 8 to CLT. Won't happen, though.

I think that 100 extra people a day coming from HKY to fly out of CLT..is 100 people that we didn't have before. A gain is a gain , even if it's a small one. That's 700 more people a week under ideal conditions coming to CLT

Regarding SOP....SOP is a tough nut to crack...as SOP is a PAWOB nightmare with Golf Bags often taking presedence over luggage....even with the DHC-8 being used on the route.

SOP is also tough weather-wise as its prone to fog and visibiliy issues dropping below minimums at the drop of a hat too.

 

[longing4piedmont]

I think that 100 extra people a day coming from HKY to fly out of CLT..is 100 people that we didn't have before. A gain is a gain , even if it's a small one. That's 700 more people a week under ideal conditions coming to CLT

Regarding SOP....SOP is a tough nut to crack...as SOP is a PAWOB nightmare with Golf Bags often taking presedence over luggage....even with the DHC-8 being used on the route.

SOP is also tough weather-wise as its prone to fog and visibiliy issues dropping below minimums at the drop of a hat too.

I've been flying DL out of HKY every week since the service started. The average load since the first of September has been over 60%, with many flights selling out. What really makes me mad is that the city has spent (on the record) over $300,000 to get this service (off the record, close to $500,000).

I'll go back to flying out of GSO because of the cheaper fares, but it will not be on US. I don't fly Barbie jets unless I absolutely have to and out of GSO I don't have to. DL will continue to get my business (at least until Lime Boy is gone)

 

[gso-crew]

I've been flying DL out of HKy every week since the service started. The average load since the first of September has been over 60%, with many flights selling out. What really makes me mad is that the city has spent (on the record) over $300,000 to get this service (off the record) close to $500,000.

I'll go back to flying out of GSO because of the cheaper fares, but it will not be on US. I don't fly Barbie jets unless I absolutely have to and out of GSO I don't have to. DL will continue to get my business (at least until Lime Boy is gone)

Delta is pulling 9 flights a day out of GSO. Delta service to cities close-by CLT was to pull O&D out of CLT. Delta has been pricing servce at these cities at a loss for some time. Their business plan was to run US Airways out of business and then redirect the Carolina business back through Georgia. It failed and now they realize they have to stop the red ink. Northwest, Delta's BK partner is also pulling mainline service out of GSO.

I look for US Airways to see a big increase in boardings next year from P.T.I., if we have the seats? Three mainline a day to LGA would take back the GSO-LGA market. Delta/Comair fly it now and Delta/Comair are on the ropes. If we don't make a move I look for JetBlue to start GSO-JFK next year. GSO is the next Eastcoast Boom Town, due to new FedEx hub and new 10000' parallel runway.

 

[firstamendment]

Delta is pulling 9 flights a day out of GSO. Delta service to cities close-by CLT was to pull O&D out of CLT. Delta has been pricing servce at these cities at a loss for some time. Their business plan was to run US Airways out of business and then redirect the Carolina business back through Georgia. It failed and now they realize they have to stop the red ink. Northwest, Delta's BK partner is also pulling mainline service out of GSO.

I look for US Airways to see a big increase in boardings next year from P.T.I., if we have the seats? Three mainline a day to LGA would take back the GSO-LGA market. Delta/Comair fly it now and Delta/Comair are on the ropes. If we don't make a move I look for JetBlue to start GSO-JFK next year. GSO is the next Eastcoast Boom Town, due to new FedEx hub and new 10000' parallel runway.

First to be on topic, HKY was and still is a joke. The plan Delta had to lure thousands of US paxs from CLT FAILED. Anybody with half a brain knew that was coming. And as DAL joins the ranks of Chapter 11, guess what city will be next? Yep, cities like Greensboro. Unfortunately for GSO, this will be another airline that has come in to destroy another airline, just to make GSO look more and like the redheaded NC stepchild.

Now to be a bit OFF topic.

Before you get mad at me, I grew up in the Greensboro area. This is a little long, but there is always such controvery about GSO and her role with US and the industry. The fine people of GSO have to understand that you are No longer considered a player in this industry. The ONLY reason it ever WAS is because Piedmont Airlines had her home office in Winston. Even when GSO HAD all that service, the flights I worked were hardly ever full...unless it was market time, the GGO, or the ACC tournamant. Hub flights would be the heaviest. I'm sure those supporting the other school of though will say everything was full. I don't think so.

I have listened to this Battle of GSO like it was the Battle of Guilford Courthouse...a great one but not really remember by the rest of the country. GSO is a mid sized city and unfortunately is primmed for RJ's. Don't look for DAL to have those big jets into GSO except for flights to ATL and I wouldn't be surprised if they cut all service EXCEPT ATL. Chapter 11 is tough. We at US know that and cities like GSO are the first to get cuts. Sad, but true.

Will US Airways capitalize? Probably not. US has no loyalty to GSO and it appears the feeling is mutual. That is apparent in the local papers. You hardly ever see a blip about US. And with the home office in Arizona, the myor of GSO will have to do abit more yelling. Now would be the time for the three mayors to lure Doug.

Sorry, my friend, GSO hasn't the business savviness or the aggressive political will to become the next Eastcoast Boom town..If I am wrong, I will gladly treat you to your favorite ACC team basketball game someday. (better be a Tarheel)

The city fathers have a tendancy to say how they want to be a major player on the city scene but then when a decision is made, it seems everyone whines about becoming another overcrowded ,traffic ridden Charlotte.
From not being aggressive enough to get the original PI hib, to courting all the local banks to headquarters in GSO, expansion of the coliseum, to the downtown baseball stadium. There have always been battles that cost the city while business turned around and left.

Also, the Piedmont Triad Community signs are such a smokescreen to make it appaer that the cities of Greensboro, High Point and Winston-Salem are like RDU. I think not. That is a strange threesome thats biggest accomplishment was to widden I-40 and I85 bypass..makes my drive to my parents 15 minutes less.

The FedEx hub IS a victory, but might I add the opposition has been FIERCE! BUT the city fathers (and mothers) have won this one and I hope it DOES create a boom. GSO and Guilford County are VERY affordable and I feel has a great mix of both culture AND sports/recreation for a city it's size. Greensboro has several universities. (love what has happened at UNCG), her own symphony, a state of the art Coliseum, and LOW, LOW cost of living. And lets not forget a 42 minute drive to the most beautiful university town in the US...Chapel Hill. hehe!

Eastcoast boom town? How about One of the best places to live, but one of the most overlooked. That boom thing will scare the hell out the locals . Before you know it , thousands will halt construction of the new 10000 ft runway by laying in front of the bulldozers. And we all know that has been a struggle. I'm just glad FedEx hung in there and didn't turn it's back.

Well, just my thoughts.

 

[jimcfs]

Isn't Dell building a plant someone in the triad area? That might spur some traffic. Granted might not be a ton of additional business for GSO, but it would be some.

 

[firstamendment]

Isn't Dell building a plant someone in the triad area? That might spur some traffic. Granted might not be a ton of additional business for GSO, but it would be some.

I hope so, but be careful what you hope for. Boom growth brings boom traffic and boom crime and boom traffic and strained school systems. Did I mention boom traffic? The growth in Guilford County has been big as is with only the southeast area of Guilford County with some wide open spaces, which is why cities like Pleasant Garden incorperated. They are right off the I-85 bypass and are 5 minutes from the growth at the S.Elm/Eugene interchange without their city suffering. Turns out to be a smart move for my hometown of PG.

 

[jimcfs]

I hope so, but be careful what you hope for. Boom growth brings boom traffic and boom crime and boom traffic and strained school systems. Did I mention boom traffic?

Isn't that why they built the I-85 bypass and widened I-40 between Greensboro and the GSO exit? I know they built the I-40 bypass around INT because the old road (now business 40) used to be called Deathtrap 40 (according to a friend of mine who works for NCDOT).

 

[firstamendment]

Isn't that why they built the I-85 bypass and widened I-40 between Greensboro and the GSO exit? I know they built the I-40 bypass around INT because the old road (now business 40) used to be called Deathtrap 40 (according to a friend of mine who works for NCDOT).

Well the area in Greensboro where 40 and 85 came together is called Death Valley...very bad! Now you can avoid that. The full plan is for a loop around the city. This had been proposed long before any though of growth. Actually, I give the local govt leaders credit on this one as while GSO doesn't have the level of traffic of, day CLT, at least someone is being smart in thinking ahead...well actually that thinking was done back in the 70's and 80's when NC was actually known for great roads instead of the poor ones we see today. It's just now being implemented.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

When I lived in GSO and went to UNC-G, I called the weird CLT insecurity/apprehension/envy/fear-thing among its residents in GSO, "Mayberry Syndrome."

Having said that, I kind of think that GSO can support more air service than they seem to be getting these days. And it is a good place to live, if you don't mind the accent.

 

[CLT-Douglas]

I know it won't happen, but it would be great if service was restored into INT from CLT. I think if it was advertised well in Winston Salem, a early morning and late afternoon flight would work. It's only a couple of miles from downtown Winston Salem and Wake Forest University and much easier to get to instead of GSO for those in Western Forsyth and Winston Salem. I remember when Piedmont/US Air did have service back in the 90's, INT even had free parking which was wonderful. I used to take that flight as much as I could when I lived in Winston Salem, and from what I remembered it's was full most of the time.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Delta is pulling 9 flights a day out of GSO. Delta service to cities close-by CLT was to pull O&D out of CLT. Delta has been pricing servce at these cities at a loss for some time. Their business plan was to run US Airways out of business and then redirect the Carolina business back through Georgia. It failed and now they realize they have to stop the red ink. Northwest, Delta's BK partner is also pulling mainline service out of GSO.

Not sure how many people drove from GSO to HKY to catch a flight. The fares week end and week out were always $50 higher out of HKY than either of the other two cities and sometimes several hundred dollars higher. Speaking from personal experience I NEVER meet any one flying into or out of HKY who would be that foolish from either city. But who knows..... I only averaged 2 flights a week out of there.

Delta is getting ready to return a whole bunch of Barbie jets and at the end of day the loads did not meet the ASA average of 75% plus. Planes have to come from somewhere and HKY was on the short end of the stick.

And the flights that are pulling out of GSO are mostly Barbie Jets as well. I'll take my chances on the remaining six or so main line flights to ATL over the ONE at 8:30 in the AM to CLT on US