The problem was the IAM scheduled the vote the day before Thanksgiving while many were on vacation or traveling for the holiday. Just one more reason the membership is leary of anything from both IAM or management. This will be close, the opinion where I am at is still a solid NO...if not more so because of no changes to the ERP. I am convinced one of the biggest reasons the other carriers want this to happen, it's a full court press on labor, and the pilots are the biggest target. Unfortunately all will suffer. So long airline career I guess....it was one heck of a ride
Does the new vote change anything?
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The problem was the IAM scheduled the vote the day before Thanksgiving while many were on vacation or traveling for the holiday. Just one more reason the membership is leary of anything from both IAM or management. This will be close, the opinion where I am at is still a solid NO...if not more so because of no changes to the ERP. I am convinced one of the biggest reasons the other carriers want this to happen, it's a full court press on labor, and the pilots are the biggest target. Unfortunately all will suffer. So long airline career I guess....it was one heck of a ride
Does anyone have any predictions on the outcome of the new mechanics vote?
On one hand, there has been plenty of press highlighting the implications of Ch11 and a greater effort to sell the plan to the membership. On the other hand, the people who voted no the first time don''t seem to care whether UAL is in Ch11 or not, and I also wouldn''t think the changes to the second tentative agreement are enough to sway any no votes to yes.
Finally, what about the turnout? Better or worse than the last one? And the 30%+ who didn''t vote last time, do you think they vote this time and will that change anything? My gut tells me a lot of the non-votes were implicitly no votes, so maybe if they come out to vote its not a great thing (from the perspective of Ch11).
Any other thoughts on what''s going to happen?
On one hand, there has been plenty of press highlighting the implications of Ch11 and a greater effort to sell the plan to the membership. On the other hand, the people who voted no the first time don''t seem to care whether UAL is in Ch11 or not, and I also wouldn''t think the changes to the second tentative agreement are enough to sway any no votes to yes.
Finally, what about the turnout? Better or worse than the last one? And the 30%+ who didn''t vote last time, do you think they vote this time and will that change anything? My gut tells me a lot of the non-votes were implicitly no votes, so maybe if they come out to vote its not a great thing (from the perspective of Ch11).
Any other thoughts on what''s going to happen?
synchronicity
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- Nov 27, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 12/4/2002 11:59:40 AM fikus wrote:
Finally, what about the turnout? Better or worse than the last one? And the 30%+ who didn't vote last time, do you think they vote this time and will that change anything? My gut tells me a lot of the non-votes were implicitly no votes, so maybe if they come out to vote its not a great thing (from the perspective of Ch11).
Any other thoughts on what's going to happen?
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[/blockquote]
That 30% is the bit that shocked me. I mean, United will literally be forced to file for Ch. 11 if the vote is no, and you'll be taking a pay cut if the vote is yes. I know that there are a few people who post here that are choosing to abstain for various reasons, but...30% not voting? Regardless of one's position on the issues, this seems like too important of a decision to NOT vote for the overwhelming majority of people.
-synchronicity
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On 12/4/2002 11:59:40 AM fikus wrote:
Finally, what about the turnout? Better or worse than the last one? And the 30%+ who didn't vote last time, do you think they vote this time and will that change anything? My gut tells me a lot of the non-votes were implicitly no votes, so maybe if they come out to vote its not a great thing (from the perspective of Ch11).
Any other thoughts on what's going to happen?
----------------
[/blockquote]
That 30% is the bit that shocked me. I mean, United will literally be forced to file for Ch. 11 if the vote is no, and you'll be taking a pay cut if the vote is yes. I know that there are a few people who post here that are choosing to abstain for various reasons, but...30% not voting? Regardless of one's position on the issues, this seems like too important of a decision to NOT vote for the overwhelming majority of people.
-synchronicity
synchronicity
Advanced
- Nov 27, 2002
- 144
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 11:59:40 AM fikus wrote:
Finally, what about the turnout? Better or worse than the last one? And the 30%+ who didn't vote last time, do you think they vote this time and will that change anything? My gut tells me a lot of the non-votes were implicitly no votes, so maybe if they come out to vote its not a great thing (from the perspective of Ch11).
Any other thoughts on what's going to happen?
----------------
[/blockquote]
That 30% is the bit that shocked me. I mean, United will literally be forced to file for Ch. 11 if the vote is no, and you'll be taking a pay cut if the vote is yes. I know that there are a few people who post here that are choosing to abstain for various reasons, but...30% not voting? Regardless of one's position on the issues, this seems like too important of a decision to NOT vote for the overwhelming majority of people.
-synchronicity
----------------
On 12/4/2002 11:59:40 AM fikus wrote:
Finally, what about the turnout? Better or worse than the last one? And the 30%+ who didn't vote last time, do you think they vote this time and will that change anything? My gut tells me a lot of the non-votes were implicitly no votes, so maybe if they come out to vote its not a great thing (from the perspective of Ch11).
Any other thoughts on what's going to happen?
----------------
[/blockquote]
That 30% is the bit that shocked me. I mean, United will literally be forced to file for Ch. 11 if the vote is no, and you'll be taking a pay cut if the vote is yes. I know that there are a few people who post here that are choosing to abstain for various reasons, but...30% not voting? Regardless of one's position on the issues, this seems like too important of a decision to NOT vote for the overwhelming majority of people.
-synchronicity
U
UAL24
Guest
Too little too late? That is interesting coming from you. It implies you would have been willing to do somehting say a week ago but not now. Them damn management folks just dragged this out to long. Give me a break.
38% of eligible voters did not vote last week. Of the people who voted 36% of all eligible voters voted yes. That is basically 1 out of 3 mechanics on the property voted it down. Not even close to a majority. It will be interesting to see if a higher turnout will change the vote. Only 1/3 of all mechanics voted against not this gigantic margin the hardliners hear like to preach.
Don't know if UAL will get the loan with the vote. Know it won't get it without a positive vote. It is far to late to make anyone see another viewpoint but I leave you with this. Avoid BK and continue to fight for the improvements we all want to see, all for the price of 7% or less for most employees. File BK and have the Creditor committee and Judge stick it up everyones backside without any spit. The worst part about BK aside from the financial pain everyone will feel is we will have to listen to the same hardliners who say lets go into CH11 ####, complain, and moan about how unfair the judge is being to them and that they are angry at the way they are treated. SO, complain about how unfair your treated with a 7% paycut or complain with a 30% or more paycut. Your choice. BK judge will distribute the pain across all groups not just 1 or 2 like some people think.
38% of eligible voters did not vote last week. Of the people who voted 36% of all eligible voters voted yes. That is basically 1 out of 3 mechanics on the property voted it down. Not even close to a majority. It will be interesting to see if a higher turnout will change the vote. Only 1/3 of all mechanics voted against not this gigantic margin the hardliners hear like to preach.
Don't know if UAL will get the loan with the vote. Know it won't get it without a positive vote. It is far to late to make anyone see another viewpoint but I leave you with this. Avoid BK and continue to fight for the improvements we all want to see, all for the price of 7% or less for most employees. File BK and have the Creditor committee and Judge stick it up everyones backside without any spit. The worst part about BK aside from the financial pain everyone will feel is we will have to listen to the same hardliners who say lets go into CH11 ####, complain, and moan about how unfair the judge is being to them and that they are angry at the way they are treated. SO, complain about how unfair your treated with a 7% paycut or complain with a 30% or more paycut. Your choice. BK judge will distribute the pain across all groups not just 1 or 2 like some people think.
U
UAL24
Guest
Too little too late? That is interesting coming from you. It implies you would have been willing to do somehting say a week ago but not now. Them damn management folks just dragged this out to long. Give me a break.
38% of eligible voters did not vote last week. Of the people who voted 36% of all eligible voters voted yes. That is basically 1 out of 3 mechanics on the property voted it down. Not even close to a majority. It will be interesting to see if a higher turnout will change the vote. Only 1/3 of all mechanics voted against not this gigantic margin the hardliners hear like to preach.
Don't know if UAL will get the loan with the vote. Know it won't get it without a positive vote. It is far to late to make anyone see another viewpoint but I leave you with this. Avoid BK and continue to fight for the improvements we all want to see, all for the price of 7% or less for most employees. File BK and have the Creditor committee and Judge stick it up everyones backside without any spit. The worst part about BK aside from the financial pain everyone will feel is we will have to listen to the same hardliners who say lets go into CH11 ####, complain, and moan about how unfair the judge is being to them and that they are angry at the way they are treated. SO, complain about how unfair your treated with a 7% paycut or complain with a 30% or more paycut. Your choice. BK judge will distribute the pain across all groups not just 1 or 2 like some people think.
38% of eligible voters did not vote last week. Of the people who voted 36% of all eligible voters voted yes. That is basically 1 out of 3 mechanics on the property voted it down. Not even close to a majority. It will be interesting to see if a higher turnout will change the vote. Only 1/3 of all mechanics voted against not this gigantic margin the hardliners hear like to preach.
Don't know if UAL will get the loan with the vote. Know it won't get it without a positive vote. It is far to late to make anyone see another viewpoint but I leave you with this. Avoid BK and continue to fight for the improvements we all want to see, all for the price of 7% or less for most employees. File BK and have the Creditor committee and Judge stick it up everyones backside without any spit. The worst part about BK aside from the financial pain everyone will feel is we will have to listen to the same hardliners who say lets go into CH11 ####, complain, and moan about how unfair the judge is being to them and that they are angry at the way they are treated. SO, complain about how unfair your treated with a 7% paycut or complain with a 30% or more paycut. Your choice. BK judge will distribute the pain across all groups not just 1 or 2 like some people think.
UAL24, the reason I say that it's too little, too late, is because that's pretty much the consensus of those who follow the business for a living.
Mgmt and unions fiddled while cash burned. Now the cash on hand is pretty much already spoken for. Concessions to date are inadequate to merit a taxpayer-backed capital infusion. UAL's bizplan and revenue projections are unsound.
Try a Business Week article. Don't know how to link it, but maybe a moderator can. //yahoo.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2002/nf2002124_7135.htm.
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
Mgmt and unions fiddled while cash burned. Now the cash on hand is pretty much already spoken for. Concessions to date are inadequate to merit a taxpayer-backed capital infusion. UAL's bizplan and revenue projections are unsound.
Try a Business Week article. Don't know how to link it, but maybe a moderator can. //yahoo.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2002/nf2002124_7135.htm.
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
UAL24, the reason I say that it's too little, too late, is because that's pretty much the consensus of those who follow the business for a living.
Mgmt and unions fiddled while cash burned. Now the cash on hand is pretty much already spoken for. Concessions to date are inadequate to merit a taxpayer-backed capital infusion. UAL's bizplan and revenue projections are unsound.
Try a Business Week article. Don't know how to link it, but maybe a moderator can. //yahoo.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2002/nf2002124_7135.htm.
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
Mgmt and unions fiddled while cash burned. Now the cash on hand is pretty much already spoken for. Concessions to date are inadequate to merit a taxpayer-backed capital infusion. UAL's bizplan and revenue projections are unsound.
Try a Business Week article. Don't know how to link it, but maybe a moderator can. //yahoo.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2002/nf2002124_7135.htm.
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
Mr. Tilton held an informal meeting this morning in SFO. He addressed a small group of employees from various dept's. He emphasized the need for cultural changes for the restructuring plan to succeed. The ATSB application was jeopardized by last week's rejection of the mechanics ERP and the intense lobbying by the competition. He stressed the advantages of restructuring the company outside of court supervision. He was honest, direct and did not pull any punches . His message was blunt, "we succeed or fail as a team".
Mr. Tilton held an informal meeting this morning in SFO. He addressed a small group of employees from various dept's. He emphasized the need for cultural changes for the restructuring plan to succeed. The ATSB application was jeopardized by last week's rejection of the mechanics ERP and the intense lobbying by the competition. He stressed the advantages of restructuring the company outside of court supervision. He was honest, direct and did not pull any punches . His message was blunt, "we succeed or fail as a team".
Cosmo
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 12/4/2002 1:44:36 PM Rhino wrote:
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
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[/blockquote]
To have even a possibility of avoiding the US Airways experience, the United mechanics MUST vote "yes" and ratify their agreement tomorrow. And even then, there is no guarantee that a Chapter 11 filing won't take place. But at least everybody at United will have done as much as they could to avoid it. However, a "no" vote will indeed guarantee a United bankruptcy filing and all of the bad things that will undoubtedly follow.
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On 12/4/2002 1:44:36 PM Rhino wrote:
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
----------------
[/blockquote]
To have even a possibility of avoiding the US Airways experience, the United mechanics MUST vote "yes" and ratify their agreement tomorrow. And even then, there is no guarantee that a Chapter 11 filing won't take place. But at least everybody at United will have done as much as they could to avoid it. However, a "no" vote will indeed guarantee a United bankruptcy filing and all of the bad things that will undoubtedly follow.
Cosmo
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 840
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 1:44:36 PM Rhino wrote:
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
----------------
[/blockquote]
To have even a possibility of avoiding the US Airways experience, the United mechanics MUST vote "yes" and ratify their agreement tomorrow. And even then, there is no guarantee that a Chapter 11 filing won't take place. But at least everybody at United will have done as much as they could to avoid it. However, a "no" vote will indeed guarantee a United bankruptcy filing and all of the bad things that will undoubtedly follow.
----------------
On 12/4/2002 1:44:36 PM Rhino wrote:
Hope all the experts are wrong and UAL employees can avoid what the US folks are going through.
----------------
[/blockquote]
To have even a possibility of avoiding the US Airways experience, the United mechanics MUST vote "yes" and ratify their agreement tomorrow. And even then, there is no guarantee that a Chapter 11 filing won't take place. But at least everybody at United will have done as much as they could to avoid it. However, a "no" vote will indeed guarantee a United bankruptcy filing and all of the bad things that will undoubtedly follow.
