Does this apply?

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electricjet98

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Mar 23, 2006
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Arizona
In an effort to defuse a post that was mistakenly thought to be "Flame-bait", I'll re-phrase the question.

Does the article below seem to track the emotions and actions that we see from the east leadership?





Grief is a somewhat commplicated and misunderstood emotion. Yet, grief is something that, unfortunately, we must all experience at some time or other. We will all inevitably experience loss. Whether it is a loss through death, divorce or some other loss, the stages of grieving are the same.


There are five stages of grief. If we get stuck in one stage or the other, the process of grieving is not complete, and cannot be complete. Thus there will be no healing. A person MUST go through the five stages to be well again, to heal. Not everyone goes through the stages at the same time. It is different for each person. You cannot force a person through the stages, they have to go at their own pace, and you may go one step forward then take two steps backward, but this is all part of the process, and individual to each person. But, as stressed, ALL five stages must be completed for healing to occur.



The five stages of grief are:


1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", looking for the former spouse in familia places, or if it is death, setting the table for the person or acting as if they are still in living there. No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss.


2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.


3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.


4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.


5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that it takes two to make or break a marriage. Realization that the person is gone (in death) that it is not their fault, they didn't leave you on purpose. (even in cases of suicide, often the deceased person, was not in their right frame of mind) Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Our goals turn toward personal growth. Stay with fond memories of person.


Get help. You will survive. You will heal, even if you cannot believe that now, just know that it is true. To feel pain after loss is normal. It proves that we are alive, human. But we can't stop living. We have to become stronger, while not shutting off our feelings for the hope of one day being healed and finding love and/or happiness again. Helping others through something we have experienced is a wonderful way to fascilitate our healing and bring good out of something tragic.
 
The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", looking for the former spouse in familia places, or if it is death, setting the table for the person or acting as if they are still in living there. No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss.
2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.
3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.
5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that it takes two to make or break a marriage. Realization that the person is gone (in death) that it is not their fault, they didn't leave you on purpose. (even in cases of suicide, often the deceased person, was not in their right frame of mind) Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Our goals turn toward personal growth. Stay with fond memories of person.

<and>

You will survive.

Your moronic comments are still so simple minded. So much like a novice, no experience.

1. So, ALPA gave away every part of easts compensation, leaving the east pilots with the lowest compensation in the country. With the "award" they strive to take away the concept of seniority. The west pilots would hope to reinstate such a concept into the "Merger Policy" before their next "merger" becomes a staplee kind of thing with them on the bottom.

2. East pilots awaiting legal ramifications, watching ALPA go through (necessary for them) hoops, hoping ALPA will make the correct decision, legally invalidate "award" for not following ALPA merger policy.

3. Meanwhile grassroots efforts are blooming to establish a plan "B" (and even a plan "C") should the "leadership" of ALPA Natl decides that seniority no longer plays a part in a pilot's career.

4. BTW, thanks for playing a part in finally uniting the east pilots. Your flaming posts have done what many have tried to do and failed over the years.

I don't see anywhere in the above anything about "anger", do you? or "depression", or "denial". All I see is a healthy response to a last and lasting result to ALPA Natl reneging on their labor franchise and the fees the pilots have been paying them over the years. There are plenty of other franchisors out there and nothing to prevent the east pilots from forming their own franchise.

Local control has always been an issue with the east pilot and I wonder if your posts have comprised a "tipping point" for many. If so, my heartfelt thanks.

BTW, should the west pilots manage to stay with the sinking mother-ship of ALPA, I hope you like being lumped in with the commuters, which would be a much better fit for you, vis-a-vis the A&W disastrous forays to anyplace outside the PHX sandbox.

Perhaps the westies can get their management to piggyback their soon to be Section 6 negotiations on the efforts of the easties because you will be next.
 
Your moronic comments are still so simple minded. So much like a novice, no experience.

1. So, ALPA gave away every part of easts compensation, leaving the east pilots with the lowest compensation in the country. With the "award" they strive to take away the concept of seniority. The west pilots would hope to reinstate such a concept into the "Merger Policy" before their next "merger" becomes a staplee kind of thing with them on the bottom.

2. East pilots awaiting legal ramifications, watching ALPA go through (necessary for them) hoops, hoping ALPA will make the correct decision, legally invalidate "award" for not following ALPA merger policy.

3. Meanwhile grassroots efforts are blooming to establish a plan "B" (and even a plan "C") should the "leadership" of ALPA Natl decides that seniority no longer plays a part in a pilot's career.

4. BTW, thanks for playing a part in finally uniting the east pilots. Your flaming posts have done what many have tried to do and failed over the years.

I don't see anywhere in the above anything about "anger", do you? or "depression", or "denial". All I see is a healthy response to a last and lasting result to ALPA Natl reneging on their labor franchise and the fees the pilots have been paying them over the years. There are plenty of other franchisors out there and nothing to prevent the east pilots from forming their own franchise.

Local control has always been an issue with the east pilot and I wonder if your posts have comprised a "tipping point" for many. If so, my heartfelt thanks.

BTW, should the west pilots manage to stay with the sinking mother-ship of ALPA, I hope you like being lumped in with the commuters, which would be a much better fit for you, vis-a-vis the A&W disastrous forays to anyplace outside the PHX sandbox.

Perhaps the westies can get their management to piggyback their soon to be Section 6 negotiations on the efforts of the easties because you will be next.


It was simply a question Nark; don't make more of it than what was intended.

We all know that the east has been through a lot of bad stuff and your fire-breathing response was a good indication of the underlying anger that still remains from the past. Grief can be experienced after any type of loss; it's not something that people should deny or hide from. It explains many of the actions and reactions we're currently seeing at all levels. It's not neccessarily a bad thing, just something we should all understand so that we can deal with it better.
 
It was simply a question Nark; don't make more of it than what was intended.

We all know that the east has been through a lot of bad stuff and your fire-breathing response was a good indication of the underlying anger that still remains from the past. Grief can be experienced after any type of loss; it's not something that people should deny or hide from. It explains many of the actions and reactions we're currently seeing at all levels. It's not neccessarily a bad thing, just something we should all understand so that we can deal with it better.


Firebreathing? Just the facts madam.

Hope you enjoy your future in unemployment......
 
Firebreathing? Just the facts madam.

Hope you enjoy your future in unemployment......

Okay, so maybe...
resentful, spiteful, bitter indignant?


sounds like...

2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.


3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.


4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.
 
Okay, so maybe...
resentful, spiteful, bitter indignant?
sounds like...

No, little girl.

When one has a plan, with multiple backups, there is little room for emotion.

Sorry if you will not like your future, but, hey, review your own bullet points. That might help you.
 
Just the facts madam.


If nothing else, ALPA has finally been exposed for what it is. The fact that many pilots cannot admit what ALPA has birthed only serves to more fully demonstrate that ALPA is not and never was a union, but only a complicated ponzi scheme profiting off of grabbers fighting with each from different companies.
 
Okay, so maybe...
resentful, spiteful, bitter indignant?
sounds like...

2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.
3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.


You are attempting to reason with the unreasonable, to add logic wher obviously there is none!! This is the guy we heard about who was crying on the flight deck the day after the award was handed down. Come on they activated their hims program for God's sake!! They are drama queens looking for attention and always personally attack even when faced with logical questions.

Don't expect any sense of rational behavior from Nark, EYE in the Sky, NYCBusdivr or what ever his name is. They are all very irrational and insulting but humor them, I do.
 
This one is denigrating to another East vs. West fight. I am going to leave this one for a while to see where it goes, but not for long if it goes like the rest.
 
If I am correct, you are quoting the "Five Stages of Grief" from the book "On Death and Dying" by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross.

The East pilots are by NO MEANS DEAD nor DYING in their resolution to protect their seniority and what they have worked so hard to achieve.........

NEXT>
 
There is a poster on here with the screen name "Be Careful What you wish for" His screen name applies here.

Some observations if I may.

1. ALPA "merger policy" is being manipulated to benefit the largest group within ALPA in case of further consilidation.

2. Item #1 means both US and HP pilots are merely pawns in a larger chess match.

3. Has ANYONE on the HP side of the equation ever put a pencil to their seniority if the new US merges with UA?....


Piney, You are more insightful than many give you credit for.

I remember back when you were a happy customer (Wolf's era) unaffected by the demise of this airline's operation and FF benefits. You were watching the employees complain about what Wolf and Gangwal were doing and you basically said, "You have no idea how bad it is going to get. The fleecing of the employees will reach beyond your worst expectations." You were right, though I don't think you realized at the time how bad it would end up being for the FFers.

Your foresight now about how AAA and AWA are just pawns for the bigger ALPA fish is spot on. The best thing AAA and AWA pilots could do is recognize the old proverb, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." With friends like ALPA... If AAA and AWA do not recognize that mngmnt is only one adversary (and not really the biggest) and join together then your previous statement about "You have no idea how bad it will get" will be an understatement.
 
If I am correct, you are quoting the "Five Stages of Grief" from the book "On Death and Dying" by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross.

The East pilots are by NO MEANS DEAD nor DYING in their resolution to protect their seniority and what they have worked so hard to achieve.........

NEXT>

You are correct and comparision of seniority to death is twisted, at best.
 
2. East pilots awaiting legal ramifications, watching ALPA go through (necessary for them) hoops, hoping ALPA will make the correct decision, legally invalidate "award" for not following ALPA merger policy.

3. Meanwhile grassroots efforts are blooming to establish a plan "B" (and even a plan "C") should the "leadership" of ALPA Natl decides that seniority no longer plays a part in a pilot's career.

Two obsevations for ya.

1. Alpa cannot "legally" invalidate this award. If you had taken the time to read the EC's resolution you would have read that they have no jurisdiction in this game unless you easties provide proof of illegal activites on behalf of the west or Nicolau. So far you have yet to come up with anything... No proof! The award lives.

2. As far as seniority is concerned, what did your seniority provide you on May 18th 2005? And now considering the Nic award what does your seniority on that list provide? The pilots out east seem to be confusing seniority with length of service or should I say length of employment. The latter two having absolutlely nothing to do with the other. Seniority is a dymanic principle. One day it may provide widebody Capt with weekends and holidays off. The next it may provide narrowbody Capt with crappy lines. The fact is you lost you seniority prior to this merger. The AWA employees did not do this to you. The criminal management teams who ran US prior ran you into the ground. Yet somehow you feel the west must make you whole again. It can't and should not happen (on the backs of the west). You must direct your angst at your prior managment teams. Or the terrorists. Or anybody who actually had anything to do with your financial troubles prior to this merger.

ALPA is protecting what seniority you brought to this merger according to the dictates of the merger policy. They cannot and will not give seniority that you did not bring.
 
You are attempting to reason with the unreasonable, to add logic wher obviously there is none!! This is the guy we heard about who was crying on the flight deck the day after the award was handed down.

Who cried on a flight deck? Please be specific, for once. Personally I took 33 days off and found a better paying job.

None on the east really care. They know the path to take and it does not involve you. Have a good day, mentally challenged person.

You are a liar.
 
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