Eject Eject Eject!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Aug 19, 2002
1,062
737
The JFK
www.usaviation.com
[P][A href=http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/4085109.htm]http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/4085109.htm[/A][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]Apparently the sky IS falling.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]So, what say you my Fellow Americans? (Sorry, couldn''t resist!) [/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]Bail now? Dismiss it as posturing? Or (Gasp) open our eyes to the reality of things and do what it takes to keep American in the air? [/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1] I saw my father lose the 35 years he invested in Pan Am and am not going to have that happen to me.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]My house is paid for, my wife makes more than I do and my small business is starting to pick up steam.I''ll give 10% back to help keep AA going, but I won''t ride a sinking ship to the bottom of the ocean.If it gets that bad, I WILL punch out before impact.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]This business has changed forever, adapt or die is the name of the game at this point.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]My personal feelings? We (The employees) are too ignorant to adapt, and AMR will die.Five years, tops.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1]Go ahead, tell me to quit now, but read that article again and tell me you don''t hear alarm bells.I certainly do.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=1][/FONT] [/P]
[P][FONT size=1][/FONT] [/P]
[P][FONT size=1][/FONT] [/P]
[P][FONT size=1][/FONT] [/P]
 

OLDFART

Newbie
Aug 28, 2002
9
0
Finally, those few former LLCers that AA's got on payroll will be really put to good use. They can be used as crisis counselors to counsel AAers on what is and what is not a crisis. These LLCers are battle-worn veterans of the airline deregulation's wars at the hands of nationalistic protected foreign carriers, greedy CEO's, Icahn, and just poor management, or lack thereof.

The crises at AA is illusionary, one created by a fearful public at the hands of a headline grabbing and ever-present news media.

Yes, the stock dropped to into the $ 7.35+ range last Friday hitting a new 52 week low, and I bought some more.

Still, I firmly believe AA's model is the model for the future. It has great hubs, tons of cash on hand, a great product and most of all, it's greatest asset to date and always, it's employees. It's a model that will reap in huge profits for AA once the industry and the parallel economy right themselves.

Even as Carty prepares to go the Hill to talk to the politicos, he should not endorse any more US funding to prop up the likes of United and those heading for the aviation scrap heap. This 'illusionary' economy will be 'real' soon, and investors and travelers alike, will go about their business, once again.

The BabyBlues will all be dealt with according, once the 'Taj' is completed at JFK. And yes, FleetService you'll still have your mimimal laboring job to perform for years to come, so put down the 'eject' button.

Trust in American, trust in America.
 

BeenThere

Member
Aug 26, 2002
89
0
To risk sounding selfish, I firmly believe that concessions do no help. They did not help Eastern, Pan Am and even TWA. Management has to look at themselves and take most of the blame. They cannot continue to say labor costs are too high. Their inflated salaries and perks are. I have been on the street due to an airline failure. I realize now is the worst time to be out of work. But I still say no to concessions. I say shrink the airline to where they can profitable.
 

jj

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
290
0
I would say yes.Its amazing how an employee gets threatned by mgmt.about losing their jobs and have it hanging over their head as a tactic.Airline employees need to know-as much as you love your job and what you do,the airline job loss is not the end of the world.Sometimes it takes a job loss to find ones real character.
 
OP
JFK Fleet Service
Aug 19, 2002
1,062
737
The JFK
www.usaviation.com
[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]OLDFART wrote: [BR][BR]And yes, FleetService you'll still have your mimimal laboring job to perform for years to come, so put down the 'eject' button.[BR][BR][BR]----------------[BR][BR]Mimimal? lol[BR][BR]My laboring at American is far from minimal,and that 'years to come' thing,I've heard that before somewhere before...where was it?[BR][BR]Oh right, Pan Am.Silly me.[BR][BR][BR][BR]By the way, I liked Dogfart better.
BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]
 

twaokc

Senior
Aug 19, 2002
336
0
OKC
----------------
[/blockquote]
I say shrink the airline to where they can profitable.

Gitner and Compton tried that with TWA and look where TWA is today.
 

jj

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
290
0
You guys are absoutly correct.No major has ever shrunk to profitability.Airlines either grow or die.Its about time labor stops taking the blame for mismangement!
 

KCFlyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
10,631
1,322
www.usaviation.com
So, are you guys saying that it would be okay with you if the airlines stopped asking for concessions and managment just says Boy were we a bunch of dunderheads and shut down?
 

Wild Onion

Advanced
Aug 21, 2002
120
0
Back to the original question. It depends on what you have invested and what your other options are if you were to no longer work for American Airlines.

I love my job. I have always thought I would work here forever. Recently though, I am starting to see the writing on the wall. Even if AA survives, how long before there is the opportunity for real career advancement? I have a professional degree that I can put to use somewhere else. However sad I would be to leave this company and this industry, I fear that it might be time.
 

Tango-Bravo

Advanced
Aug 29, 2002
106
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/17/2002 10:13:36 AM BeenThere wrote:

To risk sounding selfish, I firmly believe that concessions do no help. They did not help Eastern, Pan Am and even TWA. Management has to look at themselves and take most of the blame. They cannot continue to say labor costs are too high. Their inflated salaries and perks are. I have been on the street due to an airline failure. I realize now is the worst time to be out of work. But I still say no to concessions. I say shrink the airline to where they can profitable.
----------------
[/blockquote]


One-hundred percent correct ...until the last sentence.

Moreover, the upper management of AA (and the other cartel airlines, as well as EA and PA in the past) has zero, nada, zilch credibility--much less a moral/ethical basis--from which to give their sales pitch for concessions from employees who make the airline work while the ineptitude of grossly overpaid management goes on.

What's wrong (IMO) with the last sentence of BeenThere's post? To my knowledge, no airline in the history of the industry has shrunk itself to profitability. Some have made serious attempts that appeared to be successful for a time but within a decade or less of mostly misery and malaise (except for brief times of euphoria when the plan seemed to be succeeding), all were gone.
 

WingNaPrayer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,742
0
EYW
Visit site
Good Gawd! All this management bashing going on these past few weeks and I find myself rolling my eyes! Wasn't that long ago that my posts were pin-pointing the mis-management, especially at AA, and I was being bashed for negativity and for being anti-management.

Well to those of you posting here, welcome to the pro-employee position. The company threats of firings, layoffs, furloughs, forced FMLA/TLA, and the battle cry of our headcount is too high do nothing but destroy morale and give employees a damn good reason to not give a rat's a$$ about the problems management has irresponsibily gotten the airline industry into. I got so sick of hearing airline mangement blaming 9/11 for the red bleeding all over their bank balances when the industry itself was falling into the crapper for more than a year before that.

A buddy of mine that works out of DC said that with every jetwire he gets on a daily basis, the company is stumping for employee contributions to their new family fund before it's too late. Now, when you look at that family fund, supposedly designed to help the employees they have screwed over, the hoops of fire they will make a person jump through just to apply let alone be considered is degrading, dehumanizing and humiliating at best. In other words, they've set up a fund that is so shrouded in embarassment that no one will ever use it. Then, five years from now, it will become a slush fund because.... no one ever used it!

I can imagine getting an email from my employer every day telling me how badly so many of my displaced co-workers need my contributions, never admitting that it was their mis-management that put those co-workers on the gubmint cheese line to begin with! It would only give me a daily reminder of how close I am to being next in line.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with down sizing an airline. The only reason it may not have worked in the past is because along with the down sizing of the airline, there has to be a down sizing of management idiots.

Who in their right mind believes that the management team that puts a company into a near bankruptcy position is the same management team that can be trusted to pull it out of the rut?

....and over the weekend, (the weekend mind you) AA lost nearly 1/3rd of it's stock value. Now, what happened just in a couple of days that made that many investors dump, and drive the stock price down by 30+ percent?

Anarchy can be a wonderful thing. Viva la Proxy Vote!
 

DFWCC

Senior
Aug 19, 2002
430
0
DFW
Visit site
The labor chart says AA pays $135 per 1000 seat miles and WN pays $88 per 1000 seat miles.
Do those figures count AA blouted salaries, perks, stock ops etc. for mgnt or are they just labor cost for people who really do the work?
The reporter should compare worker cost [pay & benies]. I beleive Wn and AA workers are about the same rate of pay.
So if top heavy mngt can look at employees per aircraft and than mngt per aircraft. At DFW we have something like 150 CSMs and @ 292 CCs for the ramp. I almost have my own CSM.
 

AirLUVer

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
448
180
Keep in mind that the number quoted for employee costs include training costs. Also AMT's, CSA's and ramp service agents make about the same per airline, but pilots are paid a premium to fly the bigger planes, AA and WN are pretty close to pilot pay annually for similar size jets, but WN has a much higher utilization rate per pilot. Also WN doesn't have a huge fleet of 757/767/300/777 with their corresponding pay rates, they also have more junior pilots since they are in an expansion phase. Jetblue will have seriously lower rates since all of their employees are not even near being topped out in pay.
 

WXGuesser

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
234
0
www.usaviation.com
JFK Fleet Service:

Don't panic yet!!!!

Things are bad, but we are not dead.

Plus, take any of the reporting from the Star-Telegram with plenty of grains of salt. In my present position (what I took after being furloughed), I deal with the Star-Telegram on a daily basis. Let's just say I wouldn't take everything in that paper at face value. Not even the quotes.

Let's see how things shake out over at United and USAir before we begin to worry about concessions.

Peace!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts