EM-190 to Eagle?

Hercdriver

Newbie
Jan 6, 2005
8
0
There is a nasty rumor out there that Eagle is doing some evaluations with the EM-190. I sure hope that there is no truth to this. Has anyone else heard this rumor or have any inside information?
 
If true, bad for the APA. But with the last 717 now assembled, the obvious choice for a 100 seater are the 190s/195s, as the CRJ-900 isn't the winner.

If the APA wants to keep 100 seat flying, it needs to agree to something less than the old F-100 pay scale, which shouldn't be impossible.

Whadda these things cost? $25 million each? AA could easily use 100 of them, so that would be $2 billion+ with some discounts. Maybe some sweet lease deals can be arranged to minimize the upfront cash needed to buy them.
 
Absent a side agreement with the APA (unlikely, but stranger things have happened), they won't be in Eagle's colors.

I don't see anything in the pilot scope clause which would prevent or restrict Eagle from performing flying on behalf of other majors, as long as it is not from one of AA's hubs. If that's something Eagle wants to pursue, the E-170 and E-190 would be a natural fit.
 
TROLL! :D

Hmmm lets see, DAL now has published rates for the E190/195, that is if the T/A gets ratified, which it will.

NWA has similar language.

The possibility of APA giving away 100 seat flying. Never.

Absent a side agreement with the APA (unlikely, but stranger things have happened), they won't be in Eagle's colors.

I don't see anything in the pilot scope clause which would prevent or restrict Eagle from performing flying on behalf of other majors, as long as it is not from one of AA's hubs. If that's something Eagle wants to pursue, the E-170 and E-190 would be a natural fit.

As long as AMR doesn't derive any revenue from it, Eagle can do it. So what would the point be?
 
Former ModerAAtor,
In case you'd like to revisit the APA scope clause, the information you "can't see" is on page one, section one. You know, you can't just skip over the pages you don't like. See item 4.

SECTION 1
RECOGNITION AND SCOPE
A. Recognition
The Allied Pilots Association has shown satisfactory proof to the Company that it
represents more than a majority of the airline pilots of the Company, and further,
has been certified by the National Mediation Board.
B. Definitions
1. Affiliate
The term "Affiliate" refers to (a) any entity that Controls the Company or any
entity that the Company Controls, and/or (B) any other corporate subsidiary,
parent, or entity Controlled by or that Controls any entity referred to in (a)
above.
2. Agreement
The term "Agreement" means this collective bargaining agreement between
the Association and the Company and all supplements and letters of
agreement between the Association and the Company.
3. Air Carrier
The term "Air Carrier" means any common carrier by air.
4. Commuter Air Carrier
The term "Commuter Air Carrier" refers to any Air Carrier utilizing only (a)
aircraft that are certificated in the United States and Europe with a maximum
passenger capacity of 50 passenger seats or fewer and (B) aircraft that are not
certificated in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than
64,500 pounds. If an aircraft type operated by an Air Carrier otherwise meeting
the conditions in the preceding sentence is recertified with a maximum
passenger capacity of greater than 50 passenger seats, the Air Carrier
operating said aircraft shall remain a Commuter Air Carrier so long as it
operates said aircraft with no more than 50 passenger seats.
5. Company
The term "Company" shall refer to American Airlines, Inc.
6. Comprehensive Marketing Agreement
The term "Comprehensive Marketing Agreement" means an arrangement
between the Company or an Affiliate and a Domestic New Entrant Air Carrier
that is not a Commuter Air Carrier that contains at least the following elements:
a. AAdvantage or any other Company frequent flyer program;
b. joint marketing arrangements (other than AAdvantage type arrangements);
and,
c. the lease or transfer of gates from the Company or a U.S. Affiliate to the
Domestic New Entrant Carrier.
7. Control
The term "Control" shall have the same meaning as the term had in Arbitrator
Stephen Goldberg’s decision in the Canadian Arbitration Case No. 12-93 (April
25, 1994).
8. Domestic Air Carrier
The term "Domestic Air Carrier" refers to any Air Carrier that is a citizen of the
United States within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. § 40102(a)(15), as that statute
defines citizenship on the effective date of this Agreement.
9. Domestic Commuter Air Carrier
 
What choice will the APA have? AA will threaten bankruptcy if the APA doesn't agree to AE aquiring the EM-190 or something similar. If you haven't noticed, American Eagle will or has basically taken over AA's domestic route system. American Eagle has become the 5,000 pound cockroach which can't be stepped on and is immune to all insecticides.
 
What choice will the APA have? AA will threaten bankruptcy if the APA doesn't agree to AE aquiring the EM-190 or something similar. If you haven't noticed, American Eagle will or has basically taken over AA's domestic route system. American Eagle has become the 5,000 pound cockroach which can't be stepped on and is immune to all insecticides.


According to other airline's performance records with the E-190, AA just might declare bankruptcy if they were to buy that piece of garbage.
 
IMHO, It's Inevitable !!

Amr "could" keep A/E as is, then buy the 190/195,negotiate 190/195 pay rates with APA, and in the process mabey recall APA pilots to fly the "new toys"


A side question.

With the wording in APA's contract, how is A/E flying the CRJ-700's ???


NH/BB's
 
How would this scope relief be granted by the APA? In other words, would it have to go the entire membership for a vote or could it just be done by the union leadership? I would think something relating to scope changes that could lead to massive additional furloughs would have to be approved by the union membership - and it is doubful that that would happen.
 
The correct info is: All Super ATR exempt. 50 CRJ 700, 25 on property now options on 25 more. Option was extended. The APA had an agreement to try and capture 70 seat flying if cost neutral to company. That didn't work.
 
The problem is that it isn't just a pilot issue. The reson the company wants planes at Eagle/ExpressJet/Comair, etc. is because the pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, and agents are all lower cost (pay & benefits). Just making a deal with pilots won't suffice. I'd be jumping mad if I were an AA mechanic the TWU didn't bring up the same fight pilots do (please don't add your comments about company union etc...not interested...try to have a business arguement).

With JetBlue introducing them as "mainline" for lack of a better term for them, it would be hard for AA to intro them as Eagle. I would say it depends on how they use them. We all know however, there are some markets where the M80 is too big, the CRJ70 is too small/uncomfortable/distance challenged/etc. So, the big question is, if the company said we'll bring back AA mechanics, pilots, fleet svc., F/A's, etc. if we can get this aircraft at Eagle...would that work for you? I would suggest an added flow through agreement too for future (both backwards and forwards)...
 
It would be a bit of a surprise if the E190 ends up at Eagle. It's a 100-seat aircraft, traditionally a mainline-sized plane. AA also had the 717 as a mainline aircraft for a short period (post TWA). Top that off with the plane going mainline at B6 and US and American would really be bucking a trend if they can place the plane at Eagle.