ESOP dump

kcabpilot

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
271
0
Regardless of what the real story or intent of this recent action was it''s pretty obvious from the reaction of most everyone that I work with that most employees are not happy with it. Conspiracy theories are rampant. The fact is that because of the way this company has dealt with it''s employees over at least the past 10 years it has zero trust and zero credibility. They could tell us we are having a BBQ tomorrow and most would be wondering Okay, what are they up too... It''s bordering on some sort of mental illness.
I myself am just one step away from wearing a tin foil tetrahedron on my head just to be on the safe side (I don''t think the foil lined cap is working)
But seriously, regardless of what happens with the ATSB, if we don''t solve this credibility problem this company will be right back here again in short order. Tilton has alluded to this many times but frankly, so far his actions have not backed his words. We’ll just have to wait and see.
 

Tim Thorpe

Member
Aug 20, 2002
53
0
The reason that some of the foreman and managers are acting so badly is that they are job scared. They all know that there are twice as many of them as are needed and they are scrambling for their jobs. Some of them think that by being hard on the troops they will look good in the eyes of the people deciding their fate. It is a shame that over the last couple of years this is how they have been taught to lead the troops. Maybe they are right in thinking this will save their jobs. It seems to be the message that Ron Utect(sp) has been sending the last couple of years. The best thing that could happen for us would be for him to be replaced. One can always hope.
 

gatemech

Senior
Aug 24, 2002
356
5
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/31/2002 1:33:47 PM kcabpilot wrote:

Regardless of what the real story or intent of this recent action was it's pretty obvious from the reaction of most everyone that I work with that most employees are not happy with it. Conspiracy theories are rampant. The fact is that because of the way this company has dealt with it's employees over at least the past 10 years it has zero trust and zero credibility. They could tell us we are having a BBQ tomorrow and most would be wondering "Okay, what are they up too..." It's bordering on some sort of mental illness.

I myself am just one step away from wearing a tin foil tetrahedron on my head just to be on the safe side (I don't think the foil lined cap is working)

But seriously, regardless of what happens with the ATSB, if we don't solve this credibility problem this company will be right back here again in short order. Tilton has alluded to this many times but frankly, so far his actions have not backed his words. We’ll just have to wait and see.

----------------
[/blockquote]

I hope I don't sway from the topic too much.

The problem with credibility is that Tilton probably doesn't have a clue what is happening on the front lines. He is busy dealing with getting money. He only knows what he is told. The front line managers and foremen have their little kingdoms and tell those in WHQ what they want to hear. I have never seen treatment of employee's any worse than it is now. You would think we were still negotiating a new contract and they thought job actions were happening. The IAM is negotiating something but I haven't got a clue what it is. I go in and do my job and management just keeps beating on us. Maintenance is doing great. The planes are flying. We break records all the time. I rarely ever hear thanks guys. I don't need doughnuts or pizza when I do a good job. Just a great job or thanks for getting that done is good enough. That is very rare. If you make a couple of write-ups that might cause a problem with the flight they take it personal. I just want airworthy aircraft. I also make sure that the cabin is in the best shape it can be in. If a passenger isn't comfortable they may not come back. I try to do my part so the customer has the best possible flying experience. Management is just the opposite. They want the mechanic to have the worst possible work experience. When that changes they might have a chance of gaining a little credibility with me.
 
OP
K

kcabpilot

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
271
0
gatemech:

I agree and most of us have the same attitude. Contract negotiations have passed, there are no job actions and United has, as it had before, the absolute best and most experienced maintenance crew that it could ever hope to have. They just don't seem to get it. I have to differ with you on one point - I don't even want a thank you, I don't want any condescending word from management because they are a long, long way from that word meaning anything to me.

I figured that all I wanted was to be absolved from blame. I come to work and do my job and it's a pretty important job. I figured that United really couldn't get by without me. Well that's true, they really can't. I jumped on UAL777flyer's butt for posting his biased opinion on these boards while on the clock - I still have issues with that but he has some valid points (even though he spends an inordinate amount of company time expressing them).

The point of this thread is - how do we save United Airlines? We all seem to love aviation, maybe that is our downfall. Are the current controllers of the Aviation industry “lover’s of aviationâ€￾?. They don’t seem to be. They don’t seem to know Jack Squat about aviation but they sure do have us wasting a bunch of time thrashing each other don’t they?

Happy holloween
 

UAL777flyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
730
0
gatemech,

For what it's worth, I think you guys are doing a fantastic job, along with the rest of our front-line personnel. Our operational performance for the last several months has been nothing short of outstanding. We continue to break company records. And part of that is a testament to you guys keeping the aircraft flying. So while your management may not be doing their job in appreciating your efforts, it gets appreciated here. I know many of my colleagues feel the same way.
 

mastermechanic

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
202
0
Kcabpilot....I've been looking everywhere in my contract on job discription and can't find save multi-billion dollar organization anywhere...can you point that out to me, BTW, was doing some scarebus training and one of the guys got a surplus letter...and we haven't heard a word from the fighting machinists....and to the that 50% of mechanics carrying this company, you ARE THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS.....
 

gatemech

Senior
Aug 24, 2002
356
5
www.usaviation.com
UAL777FLYER,

Why don't you and your colleagues at WHQ pass the word to those front line morons (got that from MASTERMECHANIC) to back off and let us do our job? Did you know that when there is no supervisor on duty that thing go smooth without any problems? These guys try to show that they are needed.

Back to the topic. ESOP DUMP

What happens to the money from the sale? Does it go into our account? Reinvested? Or do we get a 5-dollar bill in the mail for the value. Shouldn't we have a choice of moving our personal amount to our 401K? I don't know how these things work. Any answers? The IAM isn't saying anything.
 

1AA

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
5,980
4,246
www.usaviation.com
Didn't the IAM leadership say that you will all be millionaires by the time you retire if you buy into the ESOP plan? Ask any flight attendant at UAL about the EFLOP program. Let this be a lesson to the rest of the Airline Industry about employee stock ownership.
 

mastermechanic

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
202
0
All I know is this, our DST (designated station trainer) of 15yrs, Mr Joe United himself, CATIII almost all fleets, Taxi/Run all fleets...LEFT YESTERDAY TO WORK FOR FED-EX. The word is and has been out, mechanics...man your lifeboats!!!
 

UAL777flyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
730
0
gatemech,

Believe me, I'd love to. However, even though I am a management employee, I'm not a manager or supervisor. So I don't think I'd have any pull telling them to get off your back. But I do sympathize with your problem. There is lousy management throughout many parts of this company that does nothing but stifle creativity, lower morale and create a losing work environment. These are the people that either need to do a 180 degree change or hit the road. There is far too much of the old school mentality among managers and above at United. Ya know, the ole' well, I've been doing this for 25 years and your idea won't work mentality. Too many of them are too caught up in CYA and protecting their little fiefdoms. They don't know how to be leaders. There are many of us low-level worker bees who have good ideas to improve our situation in various areas. Those ideas need to be identified and elevated to the senior level so they can analyze them for potential. After all, us worker bees are the ones who actually do the work day in and day out. I continue to hope that once Tilton stabilizes our finances, he'll begin to focus on his stated desire for cultural change at United. In my opinion, that is the single most difficult challenge this company faces. Our biggest risk for total failure is to be done in by our own lousy culture.
 
OP
K

kcabpilot

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
271
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/1/2002 12:45:14 PM mastermechanic wrote:

Kcabpilot....I've been looking everywhere in my contract on job discription and can't find "save multi-billion dollar organization" anywhere...
----------------
[/blockquote]

Well it's gotta be in there somewhere, we've been doing it for the past ten years.
 
E

Eagle

Guest
A) From what I hear ideas sent in via the SKYNET recovery site all being reviewed with the bias being toward implementation, not how to shoot it down.
B) IMHO I beleive part of the attitude direction was lost when John Edwardson was given the no confidence. With our new senior leaders I do believe the management relationship is heading in the right direction. The key is how those that were successful with the old style either change or get changed.
 

ual06

Senior
Aug 30, 2002
331
0
CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 6, 2002--Paul Whiteford,
Chairman of the United Master Executive Council (the UAL-MEC),
the governing body within the Air Line Pilots Association,
International, AFL-CIO, which represents the pilots of United Airlines
sent a strongly worded letter to State Street Bank & Trust Company,
Trustee of the United Airlines Corporation ESOP urging the Trustee to
stop selling and begin buying back UAL shares sold in the last few
weeks.

Text of letter follows:

The UAL-MEC was exceedingly disturbed when it learned of the
decision of the ESOP Committee to cede its fiduciary responsibilities
to you, although we understood the reasons it has acted in that way.
The ESOP unmistakably requires that all ESOP assets must be
invested exclusively in shares of UAL stock. Our views in this regard
are unequivocal: we do not want you to sell our ESOP stock, and you
are doing so against our express request to the contrary. We have
asked our attorneys to orally communicate our concerns to you, and
we understand that they have done so, Whiteford says in the letter.

In light of the pilots recent agreement to provide the company with
$2.2 billion in labor savings, the Company's renegotiated debt
payments, ALPA strongly feels that United's application to the Air
Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) has been significantly
strengthened, and the sale of UAL stock is not in the long-term best
interest of the ESOP members.

The entire text of the letter is as follows:

To the Trustee of the UAL Corporation ESOP:

I am the elected Chairman of the United Master Executive Council
(the UAL- MEC), the governing body within the Air Line Pilots
Association, International, AFL-CIO, which represents the pilots of
United Airlines. As you know, the UAL- MEC represents the largest
shareholder group of UAL Corp. and largest group of participants in
UAL Employee Stock Ownership Plan (the ESOP).

On behalf of the pilots of United Airlines and thousands of pilot ESOP
participants, I hereby request that you reconsider your decision to
sell our ESOP stock, that you stop selling our ESOP stock and that
you take immediate steps to repurchase every share of UAL stock
that you have sold.

The UAL-MEC was exceedingly disturbed when it learned of the
decision of the ESOP Committee to cede its fiduciary responsibilities
to you, although we understood the reasons it has acted in that way.
The ESOP unmistakably requires that all ESOP assets must be
invested exclusively in shares of UAL stock. Our views in this regard
are unequivocal: we do not want you to sell our ESOP stock, and you
are doing so against our express request to the contrary. We have
asked our attorneys to orally communicate our concerns to you, and
we understand that they have done so.

As you know, the UAL-MEC has been engaged in a continuous effort
over the past six months to accomplish an out-of-court restructuring
that will avoid bankruptcy through a combination of labor cost
savings, strategic initiatives and incremental lending guaranteed in
part by the federal government. To that end, the Company has


-- installed a new Chief Executive Officer and senior management
team with a singular focus on avoiding bankruptcy;
-- reached agreement in principle on an historic arrangement with
its labor groups to provide $6 billion in labor savings over
the next five and a half years;
-- implemented a program to achieve approximately $8 billion in
non-labor savings and improvements to profitability over the
same period;
-- supplemented its application for a federal loan guarantee to
describe a detailed recovery program that includes commitments
for substantial non-labor cost reductions, strategic
initiatives to increase profitability and commitments for
financial support from the Company's financial and strategic
partners; and
-- concluded final agreements with the UAL-MEC and two other
unions with respect to the labor savings program (and expects
to conclude the remaining agreements within days).



We believe that a successful recovery program based on these elements is
well within reach if all stakeholders remained focused on avoiding
bankruptcy.

The successful implementation of a recovery program without a bankruptcy
filing is the best possible result for every stakeholder at United. It will
protect our Company, our unique corporate governance structure and the
value of our ESOP holdings. Indeed, much of the unprecedented employee
commitment to avoid bankruptcy is based on our desire to preserve the
value of employee ownership and maintain the unique corporate
governance that we negotiated and paid for in the 1994 ESOP transaction.

Under these circumstances, we are dismayed that you continue to sell our
ESOP stock - apparently with little or no regard for the actual recovery
process unfolding at the Company. Your stock sales have created
unnecessary confusion, distraction and roadblocks for every participant in
the process. You have materially eroded the value of our corporate
governance and continue to do so every day. You are giving away the
economic value of our ESOP stock for next to nothing. And you are limiting
our ability to participate in a successful recovery program through any
subsequent increase in the value of our stock. In short, you have undone
weeks of work on a recovery plan by betting as heavily as you can that
United is headed to Chapter 11.

Your actions have been shortsighted and irresponsible. The damage you
have caused to the process is immeasurable and unforgivable. I, again,
urgently request that you take immediate steps to repair this damage by
halting further stock sales and repurchasing UAL stock in amounts sufficient
to recover our full governance rights and ESOP stock value.

I request the courtesy of a prompt response in order that we might consider
our options.

Very truly yours,
Paul R. Whiteford
Chairman, UAL-MEC
cc: UAL-MEC
Mr. Glenn Tilton
Mr. Randy Canale
CONTACT: Sloane & Company, N.Y.
Elliot Sloane, 212/446-1860
 

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