Exec's sue for more money

[Borescope]

Pirates Fighting Over The Plunder?
More Human Suffering From The United Bankruptcy

Amid stories of United employees having to sell their homes as a result of pay cuts they endured to save their airline, and United retirees finding their pensions dumped into the ceramic fixture of life, we have yet another tale of human tragedy from that carrier's journey into Chapter 11.

Yes, friends, real tragedy is at hand... some United executives feel cheated, regardless of fat pay and big stock deals. Now, some are actually threatening to sue the airline for more.

It seems that United's Executive Vice President has been forced to negotiate a severance agreement, which, according to media reports, will leave him with a mere $3.6 million in lovely parting gifts. But another $300K in money supposedly due the guy is tied up in the bankruptcy aftermath, and he may only get pennies on the dollar. The pain, the pain.

This Executive VP was actually suing his own company for more post-Chapter booty. There's lots of it, apparently, to go around, but now senior United executives are fighting over it like a pack of drunken pirates. There're at least two more current or past executives in the process of hitting the courts to get more long green from the company, too.

This is yet another jewel in the management history of United Airlines. A string of folks with a great track record, management that a) led United into bankruptcy after squandering millions on a merger attempt that they subsequently and unilaterally pulled out of, not to mention dimbulb hundred-million dollar stunts like the failed Avolar biz-jet fiasco, B) wallowed United through three years of chapter 11, having to pay outside advisors hundreds of millions to tell them what to do, and c) deftly engineered huge stock deals for themselves.

Now, the big rewards come for the people responsible for all this fun. And if it's not enough, they can sue the company for more, as at least three United executives are threatening to do.

That United CEO put together one heck of a "team," eh?

Stock, pay, prizes. All on the backs of employees. Nineteenth-Century robber barons must be jealous.

 

[sastal]

Pirates Fighting Over The Plunder?
More Human Suffering From The United Bankruptcy

Amid stories of United employees having to sell their homes as a result of pay cuts they endured to save their airline, and United retirees finding their pensions dumped into the ceramic fixture of life, we have yet another tale of human tragedy from that carrier's journey into Chapter 11.

Yes, friends, real tragedy is at hand... some United executives feel cheated, regardless of fat pay and big stock deals. Now, some are actually threatening to sue the airline for more.

It seems that United's Executive Vice President has been forced to negotiate a severance agreement, which, according to media reports, will leave him with a mere $3.6 million in lovely parting gifts. But another $300K in money supposedly due the guy is tied up in the bankruptcy aftermath, and he may only get pennies on the dollar. The pain, the pain.

This Executive VP was actually suing his own company for more post-Chapter booty. There's lots of it, apparently, to go around, but now senior United executives are fighting over it like a pack of drunken pirates. There're at least two more current or past executives in the process of hitting the courts to get more long green from the company, too.

This is yet another jewel in the management history of United Airlines. A string of folks with a great track record, management that a) led United into bankruptcy after squandering millions on a merger attempt that they subsequently and unilaterally pulled out of, not to mention dimbulb hundred-million dollar stunts like the failed Avolar biz-jet fiasco, B) wallowed United through three years of chapter 11, having to pay outside advisors hundreds of millions to tell them what to do, and c) deftly engineered huge stock deals for themselves.

Now, the big rewards come for the people responsible for all this fun. And if it's not enough, they can sue the company for more, as at least three United executives are threatening to do.

That United CEO put together one heck of a "team," eh?

Stock, pay, prizes. All on the backs of employees. Nineteenth-Century robber barons must be jealous.

Don't worry, before you know it, Fly and Busdriver will be here to tell you that the compensation is what they deserved for getting the airline out bankruptcy.

 

[Busdrvr]

Don't worry, before you know it, Fly and Busdriver will be here to tell you that the compensation is what they deserved for getting the airline out bankruptcy.

Not me. I think GT deserves maybe a fraction of his compensation, and many of us told GT to his face that Hacker needed to go on DAY 1. GT always retorted that he knew what he was doing. Apparently, he did. :angry:

I have no problem paying someone what they are worth. If GT had saved the pensions, and built a profitable airline with the highest payrates in the industry, I'd be the first in line saying he deserves to be the best paid CEO in the airline business. But when he has to rely on draconian cuts and embarrqassing pay for his career employees to reach parity with AMR, he deserves nothing.

 

[aafsc]

Parity with AMR? According to airlinepilotpay.com here is the payscales for a 12 year captain and f/o on the different aircraft types in per hour amounts:

777(+747-400 for UA) 757 767 737(+A320 for UA)

UA CA $182 $152 $152 $131
AA CA $199 $169 $174 $161

UA F/O $124 $104 $104 $90
AA F/O $135 $115 $118 $109

The AA pilots still have their defined benefit "A" plan whereas the UA pilots lost theirs. Basically the same with retirement medical. There are many other variables in contracts but on the big issues of pay and pensions, UA pilots clearly make significantly less than AA pilots. However, I am in agreement with your assessment on UA management's performance and that they did little more than decimate the employees.

 

[robbedagain]

they took the pages out the USAIR CH11 BOOK! I hope the execs lose their lawsuit.. jus thow much more greedy can they get geez!

 

[Busdrvr]

Parity with AMR? According to airlinepilotpay.com here is the payscales for a 12 year captain and f/o on the different aircraft types in per hour amounts:
UA pilots clearly make significantly less than AA pilots. However, I am in agreement with your assessment on UA management's performance and that they did little more than decimate the employees.

No when I said "parity", I was referring to the company performance. We'll see when UAL produces it's 1st Q numbers, but I'm betting the operating margins are VERY close to AMR and CAL, yet it takes lower pay and benefits at UAL to make it happen. :down:

 

[ual06]

Oh well. After 35 years with United, they say my claim is worth $1.00 - payable at 4-8 cents
on the dollar - before tax is withheld.

 

[Borescope]

Oh well. After 35 years with United, they say my claim is worth $1.00 - payable at 4-8 cents
on the dollar - before tax is withheld.

The only good thing about that is you aren't going to pay a lot of that in taxes

 

[FWAAA]

No when I said "parity", I was referring to the company performance. We'll see when UAL produces it's 1st Q numbers, but I'm betting the operating margins are VERY close to AMR and CAL, yet it takes lower pay and benefits at UAL to make it happen. :down:

Turns out it's even worse than just parity. First quarter operating loss, compared to positive operating income at CO and AA.

$600 million plus over more than three years for bankruptcy lawyers, accountants, investment bankers and other consultants and still a $300 million loss for 1Q2006, excluding reorg items.

 

[WorldTraveler]

On a loss per ASM basis, UA did about 20% better than AA or CO because of UA's currently higher average revenues. How long that revenue can be sustained remains to be seen when UA is banging on the front door at two UA hubs and on the side door in Chicago. After 3 years in bankruptcy, UA should have done better than they did, esp. since they still have the industry's highest unit costs (although we haven't heard from NW and they for one short time had higher costs than UA) and UA's non-fuel costs actually went up during the quarter.

However, UA is tenuously holding onto slightly better unit results than AA or CO because of higher revenue.

 

[whlinder]

On a loss per ASM basis, UA did about 20% better than AA or CO because of UA's currently higher average revenues. How long that revenue can be sustained remains to be seen when WN is banging on the front door at two UA hubs and on the side door in Chicago. After 3 years in bankruptcy, UA should have done better than they did, esp. since they still have the industry's highest unit costs (although we haven't heard from NW and they for one short time had higher costs than UA) and UA's non-fuel costs actually went up during the quarter.

However, UA is tenuously holding onto slightly better unit results than AA or CO because of higher revenue.

I assume you meant WN where I bolded above? Otherwise I am thoroughly confused.

Higher average revenues. Economy Plus & exPlus anyone?

 

[FWAAA]

On a loss per ASM basis, UA did about 20% better than AA or CO because of UA's currently higher average revenues. How long that revenue can be sustained remains to be seen when UA is banging on the front door at two UA hubs and on the side door in Chicago. After 3 years in bankruptcy, UA should have done better than they did, esp. since they still have the industry's highest unit costs (although we haven't heard from NW and they for one short time had higher costs than UA) and UA's non-fuel costs actually went up during the quarter.

However, UA is tenuously holding onto slightly better unit results than AA or CO because of higher revenue.

Sorry, WT, but I've read the above post several times and it simply makes no sense.

UA "did 20% better than AA?" Its "Loss per ASM" was smaller than AA? Huh?

Let's review the numbers:

UA posted a first quarter net loss (excluding special items and excluding reorg items) of $306 million on $4.465 billion of revenue and on 34,488,000,000 mainline ASMs (or 38,222,000,000 consolidated ASMs). Its mainline yield was 11.82 cents and its PRASM was 9.44 cents. Mainline CASM was 8.03 cents, excluding fuel.

AMR, on the other hand, posted a first quarter net loss (also excluding special items) of $92 million on $5.344 billion of revenue and on 42,752,000,000 mainline ASMs (or 46,009,000,000 consolidated ASMs). Its mainline yield was 12.85 cents and its PRASM was 9.93 cents. Mainline CASM was 7.69 cents, excluding fuel.

Based on the numbers, I fail to see how UA's first quarter results were "20% better" than AA's on any basis. AMR posted an operating profit, and UA posted a hefty operating loss.

UA's loss was larger than AA's loss, despite less revenue. Accordingly, UA's operating margin was negative (AA's was positive) and its net margin was a larger negative number than was AA's.

UA's revenues have lagged AA's revenues since 2001, and they still lagged AA's revenues (on a total basis and on a unit basis) in the first quarter.

UA has made some strides, but the net is that it still lost over $100 million per month for the first quarter compared to AA's loss of $30 million/mo.

Please help me understand how UA's results were superior to AA's results.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

C'mon youse guys -- quit drifting the thread and go compare your sizes over in that corner...

I want to hear more about this UA dogging in public.

 

[JungleClone]

Doug Slacker, errrrrrrr, I mean Hacker, ought to be happy he was paid any salary at all. The man contributed not one iota of positive work to United Airlines. UA should have learned when they banished him to outside ventures before Tilton came around. But for some unknown and head-scratching reason, Glenn brought him back to the fold as, of all things, EVP of Strategy. I still can't say that out loud with a straight face.

Now let him go on to something more his speed, like parking cars or delivering newspapers! Good freakin' riddance!