Fleet Service update

[libertybell]

Below is a capsule of what transpired this morning in a planned meeting with an IAM 141 fleet negotiations team member to update several union brothers/sisters in attendance. I took notes the best I could and I transcribed them below. The notes, in italicks below them, are intended for those brothers and sisters who wanted to know more detail of the IAM's position.

Meeting Notes That I penned to follow:
IAM negotiator:
Item 1: we would have met the company half way 50% [of the grievance] but the company only wanted to go to 10%.
This is direct evidence that the IAM did in fact have the greivance on the table. To have the grievance on the table is nonsensical with such huge beneficial implications for those covered by the east contract.

Item 2: company has inflated the grievance award numbers in its court filing. Said, the IAM has the actual numbers and its much lower but refused to tell what they were.
Typical IAM tactics. However, based on simple math, the company's representation of the grievance at over $625 million dollars is justified, consistent, and reasonable. Sounds like the IAM wants to belittle the incredibly large wage impact.


Item 3: several times that the IAM thinks the company lawsuit is "Frivilous". I counted him using the actual word "Frivilous" 3 times.
Agreed

Item 4: One brother said this 'is a slam dunk' but IAM negotiator said 22 west coast stations are important to keep and rattles something like "I'd give up some money to keep those stations". Hints that these 22 'westie' stations would be gone.
I was puzzled. The negotiator sounded really negative on the grievance and used cautionary language often. However, he was either delusional, ignorant, or defrauding to suggest 22 west coast stations would be gone if fleet won the award. Remember, the 'westies' are NOT under the east contract and are protected by their own language. Any arbitration award has nothing to do with the scope of the 'westies' contract. FWIW: although 22 stations seems like a large amount, the actual amount of members there is quite small, under 500 for sure.

Item 5: transitional talks could go on for 10 years
Agreed and true. Once an arbitraion award is awarded, it has nothing to do with transition talks. A transition agreement would still have to be negotiated and if the IAM doesn't think a fair one is being offered then it doesn't have to sign a transition agreement for years.

Item 6: Someone said, although I didn't get who, that the award would end up being $24hr after the snapback and guaranteed wage increases.
Regardless of the IAM math or the company math, the bottom line is the wage.

Item 7: Retro pay wasn't discussed in the meeting.
IAM apparently doesn't want to discuss this. This may be given away like in the airbus deal.

 

[700UW]

There was never an airbus deal, it went to arbitration the IAM won, and the company filed bankruptcy to get out of paying the award.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Below is a capsule of what transpired this morning in a planned meeting with an IAM 141 fleet negotiations team member to update several union brothers/sisters in attendance. I took notes the best I could and I transcribed them below. The notes, in italicks below them, are intended for those brothers and sisters who wanted to know more detail of the IAM's position.

Meeting Notes That I penned to follow:
IAM negotiator:
Item 1: we would have met the company half way 50% [of the grievance] but the company only wanted to go to 10%.
This is direct evidence that the IAM did in fact have the greivance on the table. To have the grievance on the table is nonsensical with such huge beneficial implications for those covered by the east contract.

Item 2: company has inflated the grievance award numbers in its court filing. Said, the IAM has the actual numbers and its much lower but refused to tell what they were.
Typical IAM tactics. However, based on simple math, the company's representation of the grievance at over $625 million dollars is justified, consistent, and reasonable. Sounds like the IAM wants to belittle the incredibly large wage impact.
Item 3: several times that the IAM thinks the company lawsuit is "Frivilous". I counted him using the actual word "Frivilous" 3 times.
Agreed

Item 4: One brother said this 'is a slam dunk' but IAM negotiator said 22 west coast stations are important to keep and rattles something like "I'd give up some money to keep those stations". Hints that these 22 'westie' stations would be gone.
I was puzzled. The negotiator sounded really negative on the grievance and used cautionary language often. However, he was either delusional, ignorant, or defrauding to suggest 22 west coast stations would be gone if fleet won the award. Remember, the 'westies' are NOT under the east contract and are protected by their own language. Any arbitration award has nothing to do with the scope of the 'westies' contract. FWIW: although 22 stations seems like a large amount, the actual amount of members there is quite small, under 500 for sure.

Item 5: transitional talks could go on for 10 years
Agreed and true. Once an arbitraion award is awarded, it has nothing to do with transition talks. A transition agreement would still have to be negotiated and if the IAM doesn't think a fair one is being offered then it doesn't have to sign a transition agreement for years.

Item 6: Someone said, although I didn't get who, that the award would end up being $24hr after the snapback and guaranteed wage increases.
Regardless of the IAM math or the company math, the bottom line is the wage.

Item 7: Retro pay wasn't discussed in the meeting.
IAM apparently doesn't want to discuss this. This may be given away like in the airbus deal.

What a horrible report. So, your IAM rep wanted to throw away $300 million dollars and call it even to preserve a couple hundred jobs so members won't have to transfer?

That is quite a sacrificial thing to be asking from those he represents [I assume he is from PHL]. Judging by past agreements, I doubt many are in a sacrificing mood for small stations. Then again, my understanding is that there won't be a vote.

thanks for the report.

regards,

 

[NevadaHP]

tim i hope ORD gets outsorced and no other station then see how you feel.

 

[barbeetantrums]

What a horrible report. So, your IAM rep wanted to throw away $300 million dollars and call it even to preserve a couple hundred jobs so members won't have to transfer?

That is quite a sacrificial thing to be asking from those he represents [I assume he is from PHL]. Judging by past agreements, I doubt many are in a sacrificing mood for small stations. Then again, my understanding is that there won't be a vote.

thanks for the report.

regards,

Tim, you were always held in high regard out here in PHX but we see you for what you are now... a self-serving slug.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, you were always held in high regard out here in PHX but we see you for what you are now... a self-serving slug.

bareetantrums,

You may have missed my point.
It was a horrible update as I said, IMO horrible for all.
It is non sensical for the IAM rep to 'think' he's saving 22 stations by throwing out $300 million. His position is incredibly unjust for both the east and west. Even US AIRWAYS acknowledged the huge benefits to the west, in its court filing. Hopefully, the IAM actually fights for once and doesn't pick up its ball.

My understanding is that the 22 west coast stations are already protected in the 'westie' agreement and that's why they are live. The only way those stations get outsources is if the IAM signs a transitional agreement to void them. But the IAM rep knows this. He blew smoke up his members a$$, [according to libertybell] with his tail between his legs in such negative fashion because it's the IAM way.

My position is that the westies will be better off when the IAM gets the arbitration award in hand. Everyone will be better off and the IAM won't have to settle for 50%. In earlier postings I shared what this could mean and how the westies can benefit even more.

Please convince me that YOU will be better off without your union holding a $600milion+ award?

Regarding subjective matters, I realize there is contention, different interest, and various viewpoints from coast to coast and I understand your position if you would rather the IAM settle now, I would respectfully disagree with it though.


You, PHX or whoever can think what you wish about me, I'm not here to score points with you, the IAM, or the east.

regards,

 

[freedom]

Item 4: One brother said this 'is a slam dunk' but IAM negotiator said 22 west coast stations are important to keep and rattles something like "I'd give up some money to keep those stations". Hints that these 22 'westie' stations would be gone.
I was puzzled. The negotiator sounded really negative on the grievance and used cautionary language often. However, he was either delusional, ignorant, or defrauding to suggest 22 west coast stations would be gone if fleet won the award. Remember, the 'westies' are NOT under the east contract and are protected by their own language. Any arbitration award has nothing to do with the scope of the 'westies' contract. FWIW: although 22 stations seems like a large amount, the actual amount of members there is quite small, under 500 for sure.

Item 5: transitional talks could go on for 10 years
Agreed and true. Once an arbitraion award is awarded, it has nothing to do with transition talks. A transition agreement would still have to be negotiated and if the IAM doesn't think a fair one is being offered then it doesn't have to sign a transition agreement for years.

Are you even PART of this union ? You do understand that if the company pays out a few hundred million dollars they are of Course going to liquidate our feild stations in order to "recoup" their loss and while that wouldn't happen tomorrow it WOULD happen as soon as the transtional agreement is fininazlied ... i'm sorry but if your willing to scrafice 500 union brothers and sisters to get your money then .. excuse me i get choked up when i think about these 500 people with children , wives ,husbands , mortages to pay , car payments , and your willing to jepordize their livelyhood , these may not be "people " to you , but those of us on the west have worked with MANY of them and know them personally . As for the transition agreement , i'm going to remind you and every member in the east that this will NOT take years to solve , if this is not solved by the end of the year .... then those of us in the west will be very unhappy : (

 

[barbeetantrums]

if this is not solved by the end of the year .... then those of us in the west will be very unhappy : (

We are unhappy right now. Morale is at the lowest I have ever seen it. Many that I have talked to, m&r and fleet, are ready to see this company go the way of the dinosaur. There is nothing left to lose.

 

[allstrike]

i'm sorry but if your willing to scrafice 500 union brothers and sisters to get your money then .. excuse me i get choked up when i think about these 500 people with children , wives ,husbands , mortages to pay , car payments , and your willing to jepordize their livelyhood .

I know just what you mean,ask any of our old utility workers that are on the street now,what it feels like to be voted out of a job.
OOps that was because they got the pushbacks from the mechanics,no wait the ramp has that now.If you think the company is worried about 500 peoples kids sorry.They aint.And it will be spun like we did it to them not the company.

Oh the fly on the wall...humm these will have to go and then this we will give you later,oh sorry we changed our mind,but hey there gone so take this instead,oh oh we already gave that to them,well for this we will.....etc etc etc...this is whats going on.... :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[robbedagain]

or ask those of us who lost jobs in the out cities too.

 

[diogenes]

IAM agreed to outsource 31 stations in 2005. The company doesn't want the West out stations, and unless the membership grabs the reins, you can kiss those stations good-bye.

 

[wings396]

I know just what you mean,ask any of our old utility workers that are on the street now,what it feels like to be voted out of a job.
OOps that was because they got the pushbacks from the mechanics,no wait the ramp has that now.If you think the company is worried about 500 peoples kids sorry.They aint.And it will be spun like we did it to them not the company.

Oh the fly on the wall...humm these will have to go and then this we will give you later,oh sorry we changed our mind,but hey there gone so take this instead,oh oh we already gave that to them,well for this we will.....etc etc etc...this is whats going on.... :angry: :angry: :angry:

Add to that those who lost their jobs to outsourcing in the 20+ East stations in 2005. If the IAM is going to bargain for 22 West stations, they may as well try to get the damn East stations back for their members too.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Add to that those who lost their jobs to outsourcing in the 20+ East stations in 2005. If the IAM is going to bargain for 22 West stations, they may as well try to get the damn East stations back for their members too.

East coast stations that 'participated monetarily' in the 'shared sacrifice' should be first in line for the $600 million lov'n. And certainly this includes those stations on the east that were contracted out. It's their investment and they should be entitled to participate in this matter.
Anyone outside of the "East contract scope" suggesting an entitlement or 'you owe me' to this Mega Lotto Ticket is in error and delusioned.

However, I do believe that 'by adoption' others outside the east contract will, in some fashion, participate in this. Even the company recognized this in its filings. Even the "east' profit sharing was shared with union brothers and sisters on the west, not that it had to be.

IMO, a grievance award will most likely mirror the following equation:
More stations + more vacation + double time + at least $20hr.....instead of big fat retro checks + $24hr. And IMO, there will not be any transition agreement that cuts out any current stations. I mean why do a transition agreement if everybody doesn't come along?

Nonetheless, after the 'jackpot win', the negotiating key for your company would be driving the wage down. If they can not intelligently bargain down the wage and retro pay with tradoffs then the wage rates will continue to leverage future negotiations towards the union. What I mean is that a contract usually last 3 or 4 years past its ammendable date, and the big wages wouldn't be going away.

At any rate, regardless of opinion and interest, one thing that has been made 'painfully clear' to the IAM and all its members, both east and west, is that the words 'negotiations in good faith' has fallen on deaf ears over the past 5 years, and that the only REAL way to force 'good faith negotiations' and not flimsy and disrespectful '10% on the dollar' ripoffs is to put the 'pedal to the metal' full steam ahead. Some things are in sore need of a tuneup.

It's called respect.

regards,

 

[barbeetantrums]

However, I do believe that 'by adoption' others outside the east contract will, in some fashion, participate in this. Even the company recognized this in its filings. Even the "east' profit sharing was shared with union brothers and sisters on the west, not that it had to be.

When it comes to profit sharing, the decision that west fs would get profit sharing was made by Randy Canale. Not by anyone out west. I am so sorry that I am taking food out of your mouth. This was not by choice.

Just PM me your address and I will send you my meager payment. I will give everyone out west your address and that of your co-workers so that you and your east colleagues don't starve to death. God forgive us for stealing money from Tim Nelson.

Please accept our humble apologies.

 

[Tim Nelson]

When it comes to profit sharing, the decision that west fs would get profit sharing was made by Randy Canale. Not by anyone out west. I am so sorry that I am taking food out of your mouth. This was not by choice.

Just PM me your address and I will send you my meager payment. I will give everyone out west your address and that of your co-workers so that you and your east colleagues don't starve to death. God forgive us for stealing money from Tim Nelson.

Please accept our humble apologies.

Huh?