Flight Attendant Seniority List

[TravelDude]

Forgive, as I am not up to speed on what is going on with the combined Flight Attendant seniority list. Please feel free to enlighten me

But if theirs is not settled yet will they likely argue for something similar.

Like it typically takes ___ FA's to cover all international flying, so we are going to put that same number from the US list on the very top of the combined list.

Then would the rest of the list go 1 east, 1 west, 1 east, 1 west, all the way down through the active FA's and any FA still on furlough fall to the very bottom?

 

[tahitigirl]

Date of hire

 

[TravelDude]

Well I know per AFA bilaws it is suppose to be date of hire, but so were the ALPA bilaws and look what happened there.

Is date of hire for FA a done deal, like no more talks happening on this topic and all parties agreed.

 

[tahitigirl]

From what I've heard from some of our pilots the ALPA bilaws were changed during the United US Airways non merger. I not 100% sure just what I've heard.

 

[TravelDude]

Is date of hire for FA a done deal, like no more talks happening on this topic and all parties agreed.

???

Thanks

 

[exB717Flyer]

Well I know per AFA bilaws it is suppose to be date of hire, but so were the ALPA bilaws and look what happened.

No, ALPA Merger Policy is not DOH. DOH may or may not be fair depending on the circumstances.

integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

 

[Fly]

AFA is DOH, no matter what. Done deal.

 

[missthe727]

AFA is DOH, no matter what. Done deal.

This was already taken care of last year. AWA wanted slotting so it went to a vote with ALL the LECPs at AFA and was voted date of hire. The F/A groups seniority has already been decided, that's why they don't want those on the East to go West.
This really stinks for the pilot group on the East. I guess in Tempe's world, pilot seniority doesn't mean ####. That's just so WRONG.

 

[flytchick]

This was already taken care of last year. AWA wanted slotting so it went to a vote with ALL the LECPs at AFA and was voted date of hire. The F/A groups seniority has already been decided, that's why they don't want those on the East to go West.
This really stinks for the pilot group on the East. I guess in Tempe's world, pilot seniority doesn't mean ####. That's just so WRONG.

So flight attendants should follow AFA's merger policy on DOH but pilots shouldn't follow ALPA's policy on mergers and slotting?

 

[nycbusdriver]

This really stinks for the pilot group on the East. I guess in Tempe's world, pilot seniority doesn't mean ####. That's just so WRONG.

I'm not one to defend Tempe at any time for any thing, but you have this one wrong. Tempe had nothing to do with the combination of the pilot groups seniority, nor did Tempe have anything to do with the combination of the flight attendants, either.

Parker shot his mouth off a few times early on in the game, but the fact of the matter is that these seniority integrations were strictly the internal business of the union representing the affected employees.

In these cases, since the AFA represented both groups of flight attendants, the AFA policy of date-of-hire integration prevailed. It's a done deal, and it has been for a year.

In the case of the pilots, both groups are represented by ALPA. The ALPA integration policy is a bit arcane and does not require a date-of-hire integration. When the two groups cannot agree on a method, ALPA policy then demands a mediation (more for show than anything, because this never really works,) followed by a binding arbitration. Both groups agree IN ADVANCE that they will abide by the decision of an arbitrator, so this is a done deal. Period. The award by this arbitrator had already been agreed to by both sides before either side began presenting their arguments to him. Now there are no do overs. No two-out-of-threes. It's over.

And Tempe had NO SAY in the matter. The almighty Doogie was a spectator just like the rest of us, no matter what impression he might have given to the contrary.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The ALPA integration policy is a bit arcane and does not require a date-of-hire integration.

I don't think "arcane" is the proper term. ALPA Merger Policy used to preference DOH but it was changed (I think in the early '90s but don't quote me) to reflect the fact that DOH may or may not be fair depending on the circumstances. The pilot arbitrator Nicolau could've awarded DOH if he felt it was fair.

 

[LCC_#1]

Oh GOD, here we go again!

 

[AlleghenyVista]

I'm not one to defend Tempe at any time for any thing, but you have this one wrong. Tempe had nothing to do with the combination of the pilot groups seniority, nor did Tempe have anything to do with the combination of the flight attendants, either.

Parker shot his mouth off a few times early on in the game, but the fact of the matter is that these seniority integrations were strictly the internal business of the union representing the affected employees.

In these cases, since the AFA represented both groups of flight attendants, the AFA policy of date-of-hire integration prevailed. It's a done deal, and it has been for a year.

In the case of the pilots, both groups are represented by ALPA. The ALPA integration policy is a bit arcane and does not require a date-of-hire integration. When the two groups cannot agree on a method, ALPA policy then demands a mediation (more for show than anything, because this never really works,) followed by a binding arbitration. Both groups agree IN ADVANCE that they will abide by the decision of an arbitrator, so this is a done deal. Period. The award by this arbitrator had already been agreed to by both sides before either side began presenting their arguments to him. Now there are no do overs. No two-out-of-threes. It's over.

And Tempe had NO SAY in the matter. The almighty Doogie was a spectator just like the rest of us, no matter what impression he might have given to the contrary.

Very well said. This is exactly what happened. Sad but true.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The ALPA seniority list ruling will have no impact on other labor group integrations.

However, there is significant east pilot resolve to not obtain a new joint contract. Thus, if there is no joint contract the two companies cannot be operationally combined and management will not obtain the final merger cost and revenue synergies.

If ALPA East takes this action then management will have less motivation to reach combined contracts with the other labor groups, which could mean no pay raises for the other unions.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Jetsetter2Ord]

Well it just goes to show when two work groups can not agree upon major decisions, that it gets put in the hands of a mediator, who then can decide what would be best for all.

I would just like to see that regardless of what the final outcome is, that we all treat each other with respect,and continue to conduct a professionalism for our paying passengers, afterall, they are the reason we are here and receive a paycheck.

Now lets allow for all workgroups to be on the same page when it comes to payscales. I for one would like to see those affected workgroups be paid equally for the greater compensation of payscales for all. There should not be one workgroup having different payscales for the same years of service, example FA yrs 1-10 on West are anywhere from $5-$9 hr less ...pay them equally. This would also retain those from leaving due to the low pay.

JMHO
Fly safe all