Flight Attendants Protest Against Southwest Airlin
- Thread starter WNrforlife
- Start date
I have to agree. SWA flight attendants work very hard with lots of short flights. It's truly a shame that they are paid so poorly with the SWA pilots making more money than most pilots in the industry now. Very sad indeed. When a company is doing well, then the profits should not go to just one employee group!Could you please back up this statement? What are the pay rates for other major carriers flying narrowbody (737s or equivalent) and the pay rates for SWA?
This is a link I found with pilot pay scales... I don't know how accurate it is but it's a start.
http://www.apapdp.org/pay.comparison.php
I can't speak to Kiowa's assertion about pilot pay. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on pilot pay...just as it is inapporpriate for a pilot to comment on flight attendant pay....I don't do their job...and they don't do mine.
Kiowa,
I do appreciate the thought behind your post. It is nice to know that there is support out there for the flight attendants at Southwest Airlines.
Our negotiations are not about what SWA pilots make, nor are they about what flight attendants at other carriers make. Our negotiations are about securing work rules and compensation that reflect the contribution that our work group makes to one of the most consistently profitable commercial carriers in recent aviation history.
http://www.apapdp.org/pay.comparison.php
I can't speak to Kiowa's assertion about pilot pay. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on pilot pay...just as it is inapporpriate for a pilot to comment on flight attendant pay....I don't do their job...and they don't do mine.
Kiowa,
I do appreciate the thought behind your post. It is nice to know that there is support out there for the flight attendants at Southwest Airlines.
Our negotiations are not about what SWA pilots make, nor are they about what flight attendants at other carriers make. Our negotiations are about securing work rules and compensation that reflect the contribution that our work group makes to one of the most consistently profitable commercial carriers in recent aviation history.
SWAFA30 said:
I find it hard to believe that you are not comparing your pay and work rules with other carries or even other work groups within LUV. As someone who works for LUV I have gooten some information concerning the F/As. Before I began to quote information, which came directly from the union, I will say I support the Flight Attendants in thiers efforts to get what they deserve.
Now here we go.
Again this came directly from TWU556.
Duty rigs. "Rigs are common in virtually every other contract in the airline industry"
"Jim Parker's offer ignores productivity pay: something that JetBlue, American, Delta, and Continental all have in thier contracts.
"Parker's offer does not include pay for initial training: every other SWA employee group including Pilots is paid for trainong."
"The Pilots recieved increases totaling at least 39% over the four year extension. The Mechanics, who were already nearthe top of their industry, recieved increases totaling 13%. ramp/OPS/Provo recieved increases totaling an average of 35% and CSA/Res recieved increases totaling an average of 32%.
"Does this sound like a contract that 'surpasses' any other contract in the airline industry?"
So as you can see by your own union's information you are camparing yourselves with other Flight Attendants in the industry as well as other work groups.
As a union member myself I know how these things go. It always is something. I will not even comment on what I think of what has been offered so far as I have not even any real information on pay or anything else. But I have heard of a 13% number over the life of te contract, it dosen't sound all that good.
I know in the end that at least 50% plus 1 will vote a contract in and everyone will have to live with those pay and rules for the duration.
I wish you guys all the best.
First, Thank You for you words of support. I appreciate that as a member of another work group you have taken the time to pay attention and educate yourself about our negotiationsWNrforlife said:
When I say compare I mean...step for step dollar for dollar. It was never our NTs goal to take the highest pay scale in the industry add a few bucks and ask management to rubber stamp it so that we could say that we now have an "industry leading" contract.
It is next to impossible to truly compare our pay and work rules to other carriers because we don't work like other carriers.
Flight Attendants at the other major carriers must have a working familiarity with numerous aircraft types. We do not.
Flight Attendants at the other major carriers have to handle everything from meal service and headset rentals, to duty-free and international customs. We do not.
Flight Attendants at the other major carriers have overrides for everything from short crews to language speakers to red eyes.
Frankly, I do not do what my counterparts at the other major carriers do...to expect to be paid like they do would be foolish.
In reference to our pilot's pay we all recognize that they are a separate work group that brings a highly specialized skill set with them to their position. When I say' it's not about what the pilots make' it is in recognition of the fact that they are
are in a league of their own and to expect a payscale even remotely in their ballpark would be ridiculous.
Comparison to the pay raises negotiated other SWA work groups were not brought to the table as a jumping off point. Again, Inflight is not Customer Service, just like Flight Ops is not Ramp and Ops. There are simply too many intricacies within each work group to make a direct comparison.
At this point in negotiations it is only appropriate to point out that the company has been willing to deal fairly with other work groups in the past and other carriers have language in their contracts that could benefit us. The comparisons end there.
So, according the chart provided by wwtraveler99, SWA pilots make:kiowa said:
4% LESS than Air Tran
15% LESS than Continental
22% LESS than Alaska
36% LESS than Northwest
and an WHOPPING 58% LESS than Delta
It would be interesting to see how the F/A pay rates are in comparison to their peers.
True, but WN's pilots make more than AA's 767 pilots and much more than AA's 737 pilots. They also make more than UA's and USAir's 737 pilots. Just wait until DL and NW and CO and the others have their way with their pilots. I am confident that when the dust settles, WN's pilots will be the highest paid 737 pilots in the USA. B)A10Pilot said:
I said it over a year ago to the SWA and NWA guys. You WILL have an industry leading contract, the question is where you wan that to be. UAL didn't just invent it's numbers, they looked at pilot costs industry wide and attempted to match the lowest "mature" carrier. "waiting for the economy to get better" as the guys at NWA, AMR and CAL did, merely lowered the bar. BTW, a UAL Capt with 30 years experience will make 155.49 an hour in 2010, and a "new hire" will make less than 2500 a month.FWAAA said:
SWA F/A's, you deserve to make more than a waitress at Denny's. Not trying to be flame bait, but do you think there is a reason the company wants to keep your pay low? You think maybe they want to keep a certain level of F/A turnover to keep an ample level of co-eds on the jets? I don't hink they want the position of F/A to be a viable job for a middle age single mother.
KCFlyer
Veteran
Yes, according to the chart provided, WN pilots make more than AA, U, and UAL pilots (roughly 8%, 3%, and 5% more). But, two of these three are in/just out of bankruptcy and the other is teetering on the edge.FWAAA said:
The point, though, was the claim that WN pilots are paid more than most of the other carriers. That is just not true.
Time, as busdrvr pointed out, may change that... but for now DAL pilots are the kings in pay by a large margin. They don't appear to be likely to agree to any pay cuts any time soon.
Harsh comment about UAL f/a's. Are you suggesting that age discrimination should be legal in the states? Or... should that only apply to flight attendants? or just women? Are you prepared to lose your job because you become too old? Please tell! :angry:
KCFlyer
Veteran
Wow...and I thought the winking smilie was a giveaway. What I thought was a sly comeback for Busdrivers comment about "new blood" in the FA ranks. I believe I read somewhere where UAL (or maybe it was AA) had a flight attendant who was nearly 80 working for them. Nothing anti elderly/woman/fa in that anywhere that I can see - hell, more power to her to keep it up til she's 90.Fly said:
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
I dont know what the pilots make but SWA mechanics make around $200/week more than AA mechanics. AA mechanics are represented by the TWU, for now.A10Pilot said:
I think that the greatest liability that the SWA flight attendants face is the fact that they belong to the TWU. The TWU is known to be a "docile" union. The AA flight attendants used to be TWU but they left to form their own union over twenty years ago, the APFA. To this day the International will not offer the APFA support. When the APFA started informational picketing mechanics went over and walked with them despite the International. We work with them and we felt that we should support them, they were union too and thats all we cared about, (plus the fact they are good looking didnt hurt-just kidding). The flight attendants morale was boosted by our support and when we did our own picketing they, along with a few pilots walked with us.
The only union that initially rejected the concessions at AA was the flight attendants. Many voted NO because they felt that the mechanics would surely vote No and they would not be on their own. Unfortunately the mechanics vote was rigged with a screwed up, insecure voting system and the denial of three thousand members from voting. it passed by 700 votes.
Over at AA the TWU gave AA the most concessionary deal out there without even having to go BK. You cant blame SWA for feeling that they should get the same deal from the TWU that AA got. If the TWU gave AA the lowest labor costs and the most flexible work rules then why shouldnt SWA feel that they should get the same deal from the same organization?
Its a shame because the SWA/TWU union officials are good unionists. They are creative, energetic, intelligent and motivated. The first thing they should do is eliminate the TWU International from their negotiations. Was their International rep ever a Flight attendant?
swflyer
Senior
Thomas, Thomas, Thomas,
Interesting that you bring up AA negotiations, as SWA Management is proposing 1.5% yearly increases for the flight attendants. Management, not the TWU. <_<
The International works for the local. International got us a new economist when the old one wouldn't use the Local's playbook. International has been VERY supportive of the Contract fight at SWA.
Thanks for the supportive comments about SWA's Flight Attendant Unionists. We are organized, full of fire, and ready to meet Management at the table.
Management needs to realize it's time to get serious and realize they're dealing with educated, supported, and prepared Union negotiators.
Interesting that you bring up AA negotiations, as SWA Management is proposing 1.5% yearly increases for the flight attendants. Management, not the TWU. <_<
The International works for the local. International got us a new economist when the old one wouldn't use the Local's playbook. International has been VERY supportive of the Contract fight at SWA.
Thanks for the supportive comments about SWA's Flight Attendant Unionists. We are organized, full of fire, and ready to meet Management at the table.
Management needs to realize it's time to get serious and realize they're dealing with educated, supported, and prepared Union negotiators.
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