? For All The Real Smart Business Types

BoredToDeath

Advanced
Oct 19, 2002
119
0
Dave has said that unless the three WOs have all their concessions in place we would not come out of bankruptcy with the rest of Group.
Since Mainline, Shuttle, PDT, ALG, and PSA make up the US Airways Group, how is Dave able to pick and choose who comes out and who stays in?
Sorry if its a real simple thing to understand, but I just don't get. Please be very specific and thanks in advance.
BTD
 

N628AU

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
909
106
www.usaviation.com
Not every part of US Airways Group actually went in. I believe there were one or two parts that did not enter Chapter 11, but I would have to look back to the original filings to tell you which did not.
 

delldude

Veteran
Oct 29, 2002
28,242
5,881
Downrange
www.youtube.com
if i am correct...usair group was the one that bellied up...the whole kit 'n kaboodle...you caan check the bankruptcy website as i've seen contracts with regard to commuter type aircraft being abrogated.as far as selectively coming out of bk...i don't see why they can't say for instance,mainline is ready as psa or so on and so on isn't.
 

N786P

Advanced
Nov 8, 2002
144
0
I hope that U would not play games with regards to the wholly owned group and BR, but the way that it looks, Mid Atlantic, Midway, and the other contract carriers will be flying the RJs ERJs ect... when money permits...the wholly owneds allways seem to be at the bottom ...when it comes to anything with the group. I look for U to "bleed" off the wholly owneds routes to Mid Altantic ,Midway, Mesa and any other contract carriers they can have a agreement with. The "props" are a problem for U, yes ,they generate money now for the group but when the routes can be flown by the jet equipment they will take the lines from the W/Os.The costs to "ramp up" the W/Os to jets is a costly one, flight crew training, MX, for example is great. When the contract carriers already have it in place,example PDT in Fla. handed over to Mesa. The people that work for the W/Os should have a shot at it.
 
OP
B

BoredToDeath

Advanced
Oct 19, 2002
119
0
N786P,

I could see that what you say makes sense except that PDTs Florida flying I don't belive was replaced by RJs but rather Mesa Dash8s and 1900s. I will however check just to make sure.

And if they really wanted to bleed us out, why all the action currently going on at PSA. I know that alot is only rummer but from very good sources I understand that the AQP program is complete and CRJ training manuals almost finished.

But like always I'll belive it when I see it and the things I've mentioned here I have no paper evidence to give you. I wish I did. The only hardcore fact that I know is 1.that we are brining in a class of 6 retreads in the coming weeks with another class of 6 or so scheduled shortly after. And 2. the Dayton Airport Inn is renovating the upstairs dinnig hall into class rooms and offices for PSA. I just could'nt see going through all this if something was'nt finally gonna happen for the WOs.

Can you tell I'm trying to keep the faith.

Delldude,

Your coming close to what I was trying to express. Since it is the whole group in BK if he only pulls out one portion of the Group, would'nt US Airways Group still be in BK since the Group as a whole is not completely out of BK.

Say for instance, in March Mainline comes out of BK but PDT, ALG, and PSA stay in BK. That would mean US Airways Group is still Bankrupt, right?

Theres got to be some good business people out there to clear this up, is'nt there?
 

USFlyer

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
2,084
292
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/16/2003 2:05:17 PM BoredToDeath wrote:

Your coming close to what I was trying to express. Since it is the whole group in BK if he only pulls out one portion of the Group, would'nt US Airways Group still be in BK since the Group as a whole is not completely out of BK.

Say for instance, in March Mainline comes out of BK but PDT, ALG, and PSA stay in BK. That would mean US Airways Group is still Bankrupt, right?

Theres got to be some good business people out there to clear this up, is'nt there?

----------------
[/blockquote]

I'm a little rusty from my college commercial law class. However, US Airways Group, Inc. is a holding company for a bunch of other legal, "independent" companies. My understanding is you can bring any one of the companies (Group or a wholly owned) out of bankruptcy while leaving others in bankrupcty. My guess is the creditors of US Airways Group, Inc. and US Airways, Inc. are voting right now, while the creditors of PDT, ALG, PSA, etc. will vote at a later date. I have a strong suspicion one or more of the wholly owneds will never come out of Chapter 11, but to date we haven't heard much about them.
 
OP
B

BoredToDeath

Advanced
Oct 19, 2002
119
0
USFlyer,

Thanks for the info, and I hate to sound like an idot, but I have one more question. You mentioned that the creditors for PDT, ALG, and PSA will vote at a later date. Would you happen to know if these are the same creditors that are voting for Mainline or are they completly different? And is there someplace that I can get more info on all of the precedings that will be taking place in the coming months.

If your unable to answer these questions, just point me in the right direction and I can hopefully do my own homework. Thanks in advance for your help.

BTD
 

USFlyer

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
2,084
292
BoredToDeath,

I know there are a few lawyers lurking around on this board, so hopefully they will chime in. But, for example, Bombardier is a creditor of PDT and ALG but not mainline. My understanding (and again, I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as gospel!) is that they are not creditors of US Airways, Inc. Beyond that... I know very little about how this works, and I think you need to pay to read the judicial proceedings.
 

deelmakur

Advanced
Aug 26, 2002
203
0
In this country, bankruptcy laws tend to favor the debtor, particularly in Chapter 11, which is meant to help the target company emerge in a more workable form. Smart lawyers can usually finesse the law to acomplish structurally what the debtor needs (or wants) to do. The main impediment to this would be massive oppostion by a majority of the creditors, although a sympathetic judge can do a "cram down", which is just what it sounds like. In the case of this company, there is enough of a business left that a creditor, like an aircraft lessor, would probably go along with almost anything, rather than take back equipment there is no market for elsewhere.