for go a negotiated 3% cost of living raise.

F

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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miami
Why for go a negotiated cost of living raise? Because AA''s survival depends on it? No, not entirely true. AA has yet to get down and dirty with the day to day waste our company produce''s. So please don''t throw it on the employees backs. You raised the medical plans costs. The costs of a prescription, as well. We took hit there already.
In the good times when AA was trying to spend money as fast as they got it. The employees, were the ones left out of the loop. We all went through 2 and 3 year negotiation''s to get industry average pay.
Now we are asked to, not set back for 1 year, or asked to extend our current agreement for a year. This 3% we are scheduled for on Jan 1. You areasking us to give it up.
Does anyone here thinks that Upper management will not recoup 100% and then some, anything they have for go?
Does anyone think we will have to beg and borrow to get 3% in our next negotiations. If we do, at what expense?
I will not vote in favor of, if given the chance to vote. Simply waiving a negotiated raise for NOTHING.
I offer these 3 choices. One, waive the 3% for 2003, and get a 6% raise Jan 1 2004. Option two, extend the contract for 1 year and add the 4% raise to the extra year. Option three, for go the scheduled raise. End the FN agreement in the contract. Return the flying to APFA members. Bring our furloughs back off the street.
 
AA says that if we give up our raises, they will save $130 million. They also say we are losing $5 million a day. So in just 26 days, we will lose all of that $130 million in savings.
I'm sorry, but Carty just shelled out about a BILLION dollars to buy a bankrupt carrier with no concern of how this would impact his own employees.
In 14 short months the TWU contract will expire, and with a new contract, TWAer's will probably recieve job protection. Carty screwed us AAer's, it's time to treat him the way he has treated us. Call your union and tell them you unwilling to give up your raise.
 
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On 12/29/2002 4:25:51 PM bagsmasher wrote:

AA says that if we give up our raises, they will save $130 million. They also say we are losing $5 million a day. So in just 26 days, we will lose all of that $130 million in savings.
I'm sorry, but Carty just shelled out about a BILLION dollars to buy a bankrupt carrier with no concern of how this would impact his own employees.
In 14 short months the TWU contract will expire, and with a new contract, TWAer's will probably recieve job protection. Carty screwed us AAer's, it's time to treat him the way he has treated us. Call your union and tell them you unwilling to give up your raise.
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Two words...... UNITED AIRLINES.
 
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Here's two other words for you. Apples and Oranges.

Two vastly different companies. One leveraged to the end. The other with billions in unencumbered assets. One with access to capital. The other locked out. One with a revolving door at their WHQ. The other with a strong committed leadership team.
 
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The ship maybe leaking, its not sinking. AA says they expect to be in the black by next fall. They have yet to get serious about cutting waste.

They want to start with me. Sorry, not after what I had to go through to get this 3%. I also lose any increase in purser pay as well.

When they get to cuttng the fat, I am ready and willing to do whatever it takes. Its just not going to start in my check.
 
I still say you guys should agree to ZERO give backs. However, any drone employee who feels that they need to give something back should be able to do so on a voluntary basis. [BR][BR]The company stated savings just don't justify anything. It all stinks of...we'll get a little from the employees now, and a whole lot more later. It's like starting a landslide, it always starts small, always starts slow, then as it builds momentum, the damage it can cause is oftentimes beyond repair.
 
This is the same nonsensical hubris that permeated UAL boards last year.

The AA ship is leaking. Fix it, start bailing, or continue to ignore reality at your own peril.

Mikey, I'm a little surprised at you. You're normally better informed and your posts aren't so illiterate.
 
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On 12/29/2002 6:40:36 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Here's two other words for you. Apples and Oranges.

Two vastly different companies. One leveraged to the end. The other with billions in unencumbered assets. One with access to capital. The other locked out. One with a revolving door at their WHQ. The other with a strong committed leadership team.
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Mikey, We had billions in unencumbered assets at the end of 2001. Half of that was mortgaged this year, and AMR now has around $8B in debt that we didn't have at the beginning of 2001.
 
Mikey, go back and look at what Busdrvr said on the UAL board last Spring. Go back and look at what US FAs were saying re CHAOS.

Don't be stupid.
 
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On 12/29/2002 4:25:51 PM bagsmasher wrote:

AA says that if we give up our raises, they will save $130 million. They also say we are losing $5 million a day. So in just 26 days, we will lose all of that $130 million in savings.

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Well, that gives us 26 more days for the economy to start to turn around, for UA/U to reduce their capacity, or even a chapter 7 filing. Any of these things, in theory, would benefit AA and may delay or stop the need for additional cuts.

However, even if one or more of these events occurs, we will probably still need to make cuts. Carty had stated in town hall meetings that we needed to cut $4 billion dollars from our budget. He said that he didn’t want to start with pay cuts so they cut projects, heads, and made some changes to the way we operate. These changes will result in about $2 billion in savings. Some of the savings were immediate and some we will not see a payback for sometime to come. As for additional items to cut, other than compensation, they may come, but will they come fast enough?

So now we need another $2 billion in savings in a relatively short term. Since we appear to have a little more time than UA or U to react, I think we should take the cuts in small bites rather than swallowing the whole enchilada at once. For 1 thing, let’s delay the raises until the economy returns. If after the 26 days mentioned above, we still need more cuts, each employee group should come up with a 5% reduction in costs. This can be through pay cuts, benefit cuts, or work rule changes; each employee group will get to decide. If after a few months nothing changes, we do another round of cuts.

There are several benefits to doing this way. One is that if the economy returns, we have not given back more than was needed. Another benefit is for those employees who believe that the executives will not take their fair share of the cut. Because the employees are grouped, all management employees will be responsible for giving up 5% of the group’s total compensation. That means if the executives don’t give up 5% of their total compensation, other members in their group, specifically the rest of the management employees, will have to make it up.

IMHO, a gradual reduction in compensation would be much easier and would probably result in less of a give back, and less pain, than waiting to the very last minute like UA and U employees did.
 
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On 12/30/2002 12:20:32 AM Rhino wrote:

Mikey, go back and look at what Busdrvr said on the UAL board last Spring. Go back and look at what US FAs were saying re CHAOS.

Don't be stupid.
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I am not stupid. This is not UAL or U. AA is not serious about waste. In just the widebody flying for Miami domestic. AA next month will be paying almost 2,000 pay and credit hours for doing nothing.

The lines they build are a joke and waste of resources. These are not contractual rules that buid the waste. Its an out of date system that builds these lines. One leg to EWR, layover for 30 hours and do one leg home. Gone three days work two flights. What a waste of manning.
 
FA Mikey;
Plz. allow me to tell you something that you, AND ALL THE OTHER, REGULAR "EMPLOYEES", on this board, also know.

Mikey "You are NOT stupid" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As we hoist a cup of cheer(tomorrow evening), we all will ring in 2003.
That, in turn, will kick off (IMHO), the most Explosive period that this crazy industry has EVER seen.
Consider that, by 2/15 UA had better have it's CP-11 house in order. If it does'nt, CP-7 will be close at hand.
What if, even after all the give backs, US does,nt get the $$$$$ from the Feds ??? Answer: CP-7 will be close at hand

Am I the only one, on here, that finds it interesting that the "limey's" are warming up to AA/BA ?

What happens next, (if) after LH pours $$$ into a (UA) ship, that can't be saved??
Where does all these scenario's leave AA ?

RIGHT WHERE THEY "ALWAYS" ARE. "In the right place, at the right time" !!!!!!!!!!

AND,
They(AA)can't make the case to APFA, and the TWU, to give up our (LAST ONE FOR A LOOOOOONG TIME) pay raise(3%)

As I look at the clock, on the wall, I see that in LESS than 36 hours, the F/A's wages must be increased by 3%.

Mikey's right, there are a lot MORE area's that management can look for savings, than the unionized employees here.

As far as the non-union employees go, If your one who kept voting NO, "OH WELL". If your one who kept voting yes, I do feel sorry for your situation.

I realize I've been "rambling and ranting", so I'll end this with my prediction.

AA, NO CP11 !!!!!!!!!

APFA,TWU, NO givebacks !!!!!!!!!!

(Unfortunately) layoffs BY Seniority !!!!!!!!!!!

When the smoke clears, we'll all be there to pick up the pieces(UA/US), and ready, willing, and able to help our dear friends BA, "or" LH !!!!!!!!!!!!

It IS, what it IS !
(Life at AA) !!

Good luck to us all,
NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
 
NHBB, with all due respect for your predictions, weren't you also predicting an early out offer for the past 12 months?
 
One thing that you never want to do is put off earnings. A 3% this year plus a 3% next year is bettter than a 6% next year. You have to remember that time compounds earnings as well as losses.
 
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