deelmakur
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT suburbs (NYC), Gulf Stream, FL, and Seattle. US1, AS MVP Gold, AA Plat.,CO Plat, Amex Centurion and all the stuff that goes with that.
Posts: 1,938 Philadelphia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When they write the obituary for this company, it should simply consist of one word: Philadelphia. The deep thinkers we have witnessed running the place have variously believed that its salvation was in bashing and truncating the perks of its most frequent flyers, shoving people on commuter planes, and flying them hundreds of miles further than those planes were designed to go, serving drinks in plastic cups, regardless of class of service, not serving food, and creating 30 minute connections where it can take that long to get a bus from that commuter terminal they are so fond of, to the mainline gates (F to B & C at PHL). Whether it was angry employees or the wintry elements, failure to bring the Philadlephia hub under some sort of management control, then overloading it, is a fact of life that simply just caught up with them. It was always an accident looking to happen.
deelmakur
View Public Profile
Send a private message to deelmakur
Send email to deelmakur
Find More Posts by deelmakur
Add deelmakur to Your Buddy List
Dec 28, 04, 7:42 am #2
chicagorich
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: DL SM, UA, US, AA
Posts: 970 Quote:
Originally Posted by deelmakur
.......... It was always an accident looking to happen.
US management had a jewel of an airport at PIT---and they abandoned it in the middle of the night during the first bankruptcy and chose to cast the airline's future at an inferior airport at PHL. They are now reaping the outcome of that foolish decision.....
chicagorich
View Public Profile
Send a private message to chicagorich
Send email to chicagorich
Find More Posts by chicagorich
Add chicagorich to Your Buddy List
Dec 28, 04, 8:43 am #3
JudyJFLA
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 447 Amen to the first poster.....
I swore on 12/18 on my return trip to Florida from Munich thru PHL that I would NEVER fly through there again!!
Forever to get the bags to go throught customs (47 Minutes), no baggage carts, as the machines were out of order (and the employee bringing loose carts back to the inop rack would not give them out, and was really rude)
1 working security checkpoint for terminals A-F. Lines out the Wazoo and they closed all but 1 while we all watched in horror! That was the straw that made us miss our connecting flight.
Even though we arrived home 3 hours late to RSW and had an extra leg, our bags, and those of everyone who came in thru Munich did not arrive until the next day, and this was prior to the Xmas week fiasco. We were told that it was an everyday problem.
WC Fields was wrong, I would not rather be in PHL!!
JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 8:51 am #4
fireworksboy
Join Date: May 2003
Location: CLE/PIT SPG Plat Marriott Gold Priority Club PLat CO Plat USAir Nothing Hertz 5*
Posts: 647 Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagorich
US management had a jewel of an airport at PIT---and they abandoned it in the middle of the night during the first bankruptcy and chose to cast the airline's future at an inferior airport at PHL. They are now reaping the outcome of that foolish decision.....
I know that it might not be "politically correct" to actually admit to a mistake but does anyone know if it is at all feasible for US to actually switch some of their ops from PHL to PIT and make PIT a full blown hub again? Gosh forbid they admit an error in judgement but then again there aren't a whole lot of options out there. This doesn't mean the same things wouldn't have happened in PIT but ....
fireworksboy
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 10:20 am #5
pitflyer
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: A hotel in the middle of nowhere
Programs: ELITE: American, Delta, USAirways, United, Marriott, Hilton, Starwood, Best Western, Hertz
Posts: 3,141 It wouldn't be feasible, even if for no other reason than bruised egos on both sides (PIT and USAirways). Also, USAirways was stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place; they wanted the O&D of PHL but the facilities and work ethic of PIT, and they just couldn't have both. To be honest, I think they would have failed if they went the other way (ie chose PIT over PHL) but at least it would have been nice for the ten people left flying USAirways LOL
pitflyer
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 11:15 am #6
BearX220
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Edmonds, WA USA
Programs: NW Silver, HHonors Gold; recovering CO elite, much better now, thank you
Posts: 2,672 At the end of the day, PIT was designed from the ground up as a connecting hub, and PHL was shoehorned by force into that role. Deelmakur is right -- US bet wrong, coveting PHL's O/D traffic and hoping they could force everything else to work. Now they're losing the company over it.
BearX220
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 11:55 am #7
PineyBob
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 1,251 The PHL "Problem"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHL from my conversations and minor investigations is a major craphole to operate from. It is not a pretty place and EVERY shortcoming of that facility is magnified when you control 70% of the traffic passing through there.
Despite all of that, it is by all accounts a profitable hub, so I can certainly understand why US would want to build up their operation there.
Until PHL airport actually invests millions of dollars to upgrade the "Behind the Curtain" infrastructure ANY carrier or carriers will have operational problems in PHL once they get beyond a certain size. Couple that with a TSA regime that couldn't organize a one car funeral and you have a further prescription for disaster. For those of you who may not know TSA plays a significant role in creating baggage delays in any airport. They have trouble keeping staff as no one wants to work down in the Bowels of an old worn out set of buildings in extreme conditions.
PHL could very easily destroy US Airways
PineyBob
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 12:01 pm #8
Arrzee
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The First State, USA - US Chairman's Pref, Starwood Gold, HHonors Gold VIP - FWIW
Posts: 709 Quote:
Originally Posted by PineyBob
PHL could very easily destroy US Airways
Not quite... US Airways has destroyed itself.
Arrzee
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 1:36 pm #9
Wave1
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PIT/LAX
Programs: US Gold,HH Gold,*wood Gold
Posts: 12 Over the past four or five years I've almost always somehow been able to avoid PHL (usually on purpose) and have either flown direct to PIT or used CLT. After a long hiatus and recent cutbacks at PIT I finally flew through PHL on November 20. (LAX-PHL-PIT). It did not disappoint. Almost every cliche' about PHL came true. The comedy of erorrs began when upon the approach to PHL when "heavy air traffic" delayed our landing as we circled a couple of times.
When we finally did land, we sat on the tarmac as the pilot explained that there was no ground crew available to meet our plane.
Keep in mind that this was a Saturday with "normal" ops and OK weather (very light drizzle) and later in the evening.
We finally got to the gate and the passenger next to me at the window shrieked in horror as she saw her bag upside down in a small puddle sitting next to the plane as the ground crew "unloaded" the bags as we deplaned (more like dumped the bags).
Upon landing I began my trek from terminal D to terminal A. of course we were the last gate at terminal A. The walk was further than anything at LAX, CLT, PIT or most other AP I've been to.
OF COURSE the PHL-PIT leg was delayed due to what the GA termed a "Dirty Plane" (This was apparently discovered well after the plane had landed and should've been cleaned).
Then a further mechanical delay. All the while the airport staff (not necessarily the US staff) was far less friendly than I am used to. These folks are definitely not ambassadors for the facility and regardless of how nice some US staff is, if the rest of the AP staff are rude, it makes US look bad.
Next, while waiting, i was sitting with a group who had connected from the carribean and apparently their bags disappeared somewhere between checking them in at their origination and the black hole known as the PHL baggage system. I did not get all of the details but when they were explaining their predicament to the US GA in PHL she stated that this type of thing happens regularly and she is sick of it. Interestingly enough, the US GA's were super nice and apologetic--even though they are probably sick of covering for the PHL ground crew/ramp workers/airport situation.
Finally we boarded but not before one last surprise as we sat on the tarmac (again) before take off for another 30 min for some unfathomable reason (never explained).
This was all on one typical Saturday evening. Nothing earth shattering compared to what others have gone through this week, but still, a series of events and pattern that i have never experienced at PIT or CLT.
I vowed to continue my avoidence of PHL. I always have great experiences on US and love the airline, but PHL is a disaster. I honestly think that a smaller leaner airline minus PHL as the major hub could've worked post-BK as their aren't two airports in the country I'm aware of that are so user friendly as PIT and CLT. Certainly the labor issues must also have been addressed but the decision to make PHL the "crown jewel" was the wrong one.
I think few folks would NOW argue against the fact that the decision to do that may have cost US their "fighting chance" at survival. Too bad if true. Hopefully they can salvage the airline.
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT suburbs (NYC), Gulf Stream, FL, and Seattle. US1, AS MVP Gold, AA Plat.,CO Plat, Amex Centurion and all the stuff that goes with that.
Posts: 1,938 Philadelphia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When they write the obituary for this company, it should simply consist of one word: Philadelphia. The deep thinkers we have witnessed running the place have variously believed that its salvation was in bashing and truncating the perks of its most frequent flyers, shoving people on commuter planes, and flying them hundreds of miles further than those planes were designed to go, serving drinks in plastic cups, regardless of class of service, not serving food, and creating 30 minute connections where it can take that long to get a bus from that commuter terminal they are so fond of, to the mainline gates (F to B & C at PHL). Whether it was angry employees or the wintry elements, failure to bring the Philadlephia hub under some sort of management control, then overloading it, is a fact of life that simply just caught up with them. It was always an accident looking to happen.
deelmakur
View Public Profile
Send a private message to deelmakur
Send email to deelmakur
Find More Posts by deelmakur
Add deelmakur to Your Buddy List
Dec 28, 04, 7:42 am #2
chicagorich
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: DL SM, UA, US, AA
Posts: 970 Quote:
Originally Posted by deelmakur
.......... It was always an accident looking to happen.
US management had a jewel of an airport at PIT---and they abandoned it in the middle of the night during the first bankruptcy and chose to cast the airline's future at an inferior airport at PHL. They are now reaping the outcome of that foolish decision.....
chicagorich
View Public Profile
Send a private message to chicagorich
Send email to chicagorich
Find More Posts by chicagorich
Add chicagorich to Your Buddy List
Dec 28, 04, 8:43 am #3
JudyJFLA
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 447 Amen to the first poster.....
I swore on 12/18 on my return trip to Florida from Munich thru PHL that I would NEVER fly through there again!!
Forever to get the bags to go throught customs (47 Minutes), no baggage carts, as the machines were out of order (and the employee bringing loose carts back to the inop rack would not give them out, and was really rude)
1 working security checkpoint for terminals A-F. Lines out the Wazoo and they closed all but 1 while we all watched in horror! That was the straw that made us miss our connecting flight.
Even though we arrived home 3 hours late to RSW and had an extra leg, our bags, and those of everyone who came in thru Munich did not arrive until the next day, and this was prior to the Xmas week fiasco. We were told that it was an everyday problem.
WC Fields was wrong, I would not rather be in PHL!!
JudyJFLA
JudyJFLA
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 8:51 am #4
fireworksboy
Join Date: May 2003
Location: CLE/PIT SPG Plat Marriott Gold Priority Club PLat CO Plat USAir Nothing Hertz 5*
Posts: 647 Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagorich
US management had a jewel of an airport at PIT---and they abandoned it in the middle of the night during the first bankruptcy and chose to cast the airline's future at an inferior airport at PHL. They are now reaping the outcome of that foolish decision.....
I know that it might not be "politically correct" to actually admit to a mistake but does anyone know if it is at all feasible for US to actually switch some of their ops from PHL to PIT and make PIT a full blown hub again? Gosh forbid they admit an error in judgement but then again there aren't a whole lot of options out there. This doesn't mean the same things wouldn't have happened in PIT but ....
fireworksboy
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 10:20 am #5
pitflyer
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: A hotel in the middle of nowhere
Programs: ELITE: American, Delta, USAirways, United, Marriott, Hilton, Starwood, Best Western, Hertz
Posts: 3,141 It wouldn't be feasible, even if for no other reason than bruised egos on both sides (PIT and USAirways). Also, USAirways was stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place; they wanted the O&D of PHL but the facilities and work ethic of PIT, and they just couldn't have both. To be honest, I think they would have failed if they went the other way (ie chose PIT over PHL) but at least it would have been nice for the ten people left flying USAirways LOL
pitflyer
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 11:15 am #6
BearX220
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Edmonds, WA USA
Programs: NW Silver, HHonors Gold; recovering CO elite, much better now, thank you
Posts: 2,672 At the end of the day, PIT was designed from the ground up as a connecting hub, and PHL was shoehorned by force into that role. Deelmakur is right -- US bet wrong, coveting PHL's O/D traffic and hoping they could force everything else to work. Now they're losing the company over it.
BearX220
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 11:55 am #7
PineyBob
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 1,251 The PHL "Problem"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHL from my conversations and minor investigations is a major craphole to operate from. It is not a pretty place and EVERY shortcoming of that facility is magnified when you control 70% of the traffic passing through there.
Despite all of that, it is by all accounts a profitable hub, so I can certainly understand why US would want to build up their operation there.
Until PHL airport actually invests millions of dollars to upgrade the "Behind the Curtain" infrastructure ANY carrier or carriers will have operational problems in PHL once they get beyond a certain size. Couple that with a TSA regime that couldn't organize a one car funeral and you have a further prescription for disaster. For those of you who may not know TSA plays a significant role in creating baggage delays in any airport. They have trouble keeping staff as no one wants to work down in the Bowels of an old worn out set of buildings in extreme conditions.
PHL could very easily destroy US Airways
PineyBob
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 12:01 pm #8
Arrzee
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The First State, USA - US Chairman's Pref, Starwood Gold, HHonors Gold VIP - FWIW
Posts: 709 Quote:
Originally Posted by PineyBob
PHL could very easily destroy US Airways
Not quite... US Airways has destroyed itself.
Arrzee
View Public Profile
Dec 28, 04, 1:36 pm #9
Wave1
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PIT/LAX
Programs: US Gold,HH Gold,*wood Gold
Posts: 12 Over the past four or five years I've almost always somehow been able to avoid PHL (usually on purpose) and have either flown direct to PIT or used CLT. After a long hiatus and recent cutbacks at PIT I finally flew through PHL on November 20. (LAX-PHL-PIT). It did not disappoint. Almost every cliche' about PHL came true. The comedy of erorrs began when upon the approach to PHL when "heavy air traffic" delayed our landing as we circled a couple of times.
When we finally did land, we sat on the tarmac as the pilot explained that there was no ground crew available to meet our plane.
Keep in mind that this was a Saturday with "normal" ops and OK weather (very light drizzle) and later in the evening.
We finally got to the gate and the passenger next to me at the window shrieked in horror as she saw her bag upside down in a small puddle sitting next to the plane as the ground crew "unloaded" the bags as we deplaned (more like dumped the bags).
Upon landing I began my trek from terminal D to terminal A. of course we were the last gate at terminal A. The walk was further than anything at LAX, CLT, PIT or most other AP I've been to.
OF COURSE the PHL-PIT leg was delayed due to what the GA termed a "Dirty Plane" (This was apparently discovered well after the plane had landed and should've been cleaned).
Then a further mechanical delay. All the while the airport staff (not necessarily the US staff) was far less friendly than I am used to. These folks are definitely not ambassadors for the facility and regardless of how nice some US staff is, if the rest of the AP staff are rude, it makes US look bad.
Next, while waiting, i was sitting with a group who had connected from the carribean and apparently their bags disappeared somewhere between checking them in at their origination and the black hole known as the PHL baggage system. I did not get all of the details but when they were explaining their predicament to the US GA in PHL she stated that this type of thing happens regularly and she is sick of it. Interestingly enough, the US GA's were super nice and apologetic--even though they are probably sick of covering for the PHL ground crew/ramp workers/airport situation.
Finally we boarded but not before one last surprise as we sat on the tarmac (again) before take off for another 30 min for some unfathomable reason (never explained).
This was all on one typical Saturday evening. Nothing earth shattering compared to what others have gone through this week, but still, a series of events and pattern that i have never experienced at PIT or CLT.
I vowed to continue my avoidence of PHL. I always have great experiences on US and love the airline, but PHL is a disaster. I honestly think that a smaller leaner airline minus PHL as the major hub could've worked post-BK as their aren't two airports in the country I'm aware of that are so user friendly as PIT and CLT. Certainly the labor issues must also have been addressed but the decision to make PHL the "crown jewel" was the wrong one.
I think few folks would NOW argue against the fact that the decision to do that may have cost US their "fighting chance" at survival. Too bad if true. Hopefully they can salvage the airline.