I was sitting hear reading this message board again and I think how pitiful we are. Day after day we come in here make some great points and some bad points and #### #### #### and do more bitching. Then we bash people we dont even know personally. Do we have lives beyond this message board. I have learned alot lately from both sides of the fence and to be honest I am divided and confused. I just want my job to be safe once again.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
I was ready to "move on" as in a previous post. But this little "oh, by the way, we have perserved our top executives'' pensions even in the even of bankruptcy, and it''s perfectly legit compared to compensation of other execs, blah blah blah" makes it difficult to forgive and forget.
- Thread Starter
- #6
I hate to admit but i do agree. But wonder what type of execs would we have if not for the good pension (wolf...gangwall...ichan
- Thread Starter
- #7
me too but i have to take a side and i hope it isnt the wrong decision i take his side
Well, I tell you A77IGW, you seem to be making more posts than anyone. Did they supply you a dedicated computer in Centerport to shill for the company?
A lot of us left good jobs with other carriers to come to AA and are now on-the-street without hope of return thanks in large part to the stupidity, averice, and incompetence of some of your management buddies. The latest pension deception and money grab from AA leadership makes it obvious to the most casual observer. To believe otherwise is fantasy.
The AA leadership has destroyed the morale at this company . . . . and morale was one of the things that might have saved it.
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"I wonder when Carty will personally respond to this and I can't wait to hear his explanation for the secrecy. I don't have a problem with executive compensation, but to cement this is in secrecy during these time leaves alot to be desired"
The fact that this done in SECRECY and by INSIDERS whose PERSONAL interest was at stake AND who knew that BK was inevitable, speaks volumes about their character. People like this are the ones who will ruin the capitalist system. The corruption and lack of personal character among airline executives, managers, and leaders will be the real downfall of the industry . . . not 911 or a weak economy.
A lot of us left good jobs with other carriers to come to AA and are now on-the-street without hope of return thanks in large part to the stupidity, averice, and incompetence of some of your management buddies. The latest pension deception and money grab from AA leadership makes it obvious to the most casual observer. To believe otherwise is fantasy.
The AA leadership has destroyed the morale at this company . . . . and morale was one of the things that might have saved it.
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"I wonder when Carty will personally respond to this and I can't wait to hear his explanation for the secrecy. I don't have a problem with executive compensation, but to cement this is in secrecy during these time leaves alot to be desired"
The fact that this done in SECRECY and by INSIDERS whose PERSONAL interest was at stake AND who knew that BK was inevitable, speaks volumes about their character. People like this are the ones who will ruin the capitalist system. The corruption and lack of personal character among airline executives, managers, and leaders will be the real downfall of the industry . . . not 911 or a weak economy.
A77IGW,
I wonder what kind of company we would have today if senior
management had listened to the concerns APA pilots had YEARS ago about the lack of cockpit door security.
I wonder what kind of company we would have today if Carty had spent his time in Washington lobbying for an effective passenger matching and profiling criteria against terrorist watch lists, instead of lobbying against labor.
I wonder where we would be today if senior management had joined together with huge numbers of employees and airport workers to lobby against years of ticket tax increases instead viciously attacking labor for raises less than CPI increases.
We can drop the past and move forward. We can''t keep doing it without some leadership. There is none.
I wonder what kind of company we would have today if senior
management had listened to the concerns APA pilots had YEARS ago about the lack of cockpit door security.
I wonder what kind of company we would have today if Carty had spent his time in Washington lobbying for an effective passenger matching and profiling criteria against terrorist watch lists, instead of lobbying against labor.
I wonder where we would be today if senior management had joined together with huge numbers of employees and airport workers to lobby against years of ticket tax increases instead viciously attacking labor for raises less than CPI increases.
We can drop the past and move forward. We can''t keep doing it without some leadership. There is none.
- Thread Starter
- #11
to you winglet...I admitted i spend way too much time on this board. Why is everything such a conspiracy to you. I have to be management if I disagree with you ...I may be I may not be but I am not going to jude your entire workgroup based on your posts
- Thread Starter
- #12
why the personal attack winglet I did not attack anyone. I just made a point. You are so sure I am at centerport and so sure of my role in the company why dont you shed some light and tell me where you work
"but they have to fend of militant unions as well. "
AA unions have been historically weak, and and the whole, have been paid
less than the industry average for 20 years.
"If we would have had safer cockpit doors along time ago would that have stopped 9/11. You and I can not answer that question"
No we can''t know for sure. We do know that a better door and procedures would have altered terrorist thinking. Before 9/11 there were 30 plus cockpit intrusions over a relatively short time. In some cases the aircraft was nearly lost such as the BA 747 over Africa. The inaction was criminally negligent. I knew their was a problem, I sat on my arse and did nothing. The company KNEW about the door security, they did nothing.
"I wonder what kind of company we would be if the pilots did not cause an illegal sick out costing the company millions."
I wish it didn''t happen either. I also wish AA management had respected the contract clause they signed in 1997 in regards to carrier aquisitions like Reno, instead of the deliberate violation of it that resulted in the downward slide to a major fight.
You can smugly point your finger at the wife who breaks a plate over her husbands head, but if the fight is a result of him sleeping with the nanny, that problem has to be solved too.
" I wonder where the apa would be if the company forced them to pay the fine."
APA paid 20 something million already. The rest is spread out over some time period. Even if AMR wanted it all up front from every pilot on the list at the sick out, it would have been about $3500-4000 per pilot. Since Late fall of 2001, I have seen a $80,000 paycut. Put the fine in perspective in relation to that.
You seem biased to the company side of regarding union attacks. I read
many accounts of APA members who became negotiaters and union reps thinking that somehow they could start fresh with a cooperative relationship with AA management. They truly believed that APA was partly responsible for the bad relations and they were positive they could change the relationship for the better. To the man, every last one of them has been discouraged by AA management behavior and leadership. The Flagship News and Carty''s hotlines are a mirage.
AA unions have been historically weak, and and the whole, have been paid
less than the industry average for 20 years.
"If we would have had safer cockpit doors along time ago would that have stopped 9/11. You and I can not answer that question"
No we can''t know for sure. We do know that a better door and procedures would have altered terrorist thinking. Before 9/11 there were 30 plus cockpit intrusions over a relatively short time. In some cases the aircraft was nearly lost such as the BA 747 over Africa. The inaction was criminally negligent. I knew their was a problem, I sat on my arse and did nothing. The company KNEW about the door security, they did nothing.
"I wonder what kind of company we would be if the pilots did not cause an illegal sick out costing the company millions."
I wish it didn''t happen either. I also wish AA management had respected the contract clause they signed in 1997 in regards to carrier aquisitions like Reno, instead of the deliberate violation of it that resulted in the downward slide to a major fight.
You can smugly point your finger at the wife who breaks a plate over her husbands head, but if the fight is a result of him sleeping with the nanny, that problem has to be solved too.
" I wonder where the apa would be if the company forced them to pay the fine."
APA paid 20 something million already. The rest is spread out over some time period. Even if AMR wanted it all up front from every pilot on the list at the sick out, it would have been about $3500-4000 per pilot. Since Late fall of 2001, I have seen a $80,000 paycut. Put the fine in perspective in relation to that.
You seem biased to the company side of regarding union attacks. I read
many accounts of APA members who became negotiaters and union reps thinking that somehow they could start fresh with a cooperative relationship with AA management. They truly believed that APA was partly responsible for the bad relations and they were positive they could change the relationship for the better. To the man, every last one of them has been discouraged by AA management behavior and leadership. The Flagship News and Carty''s hotlines are a mirage.
- Thread Starter
- #14
I also wonder where we would be if we all got along. I refuse to attack management for a job they are trying to do. They not only have to try and run an airline but they have to fend of militant unions as well. I for one would not want a senior execs job.
If we would have had safer cockpit doors along time ago would that have stopped 9/11. You and I can not answer that question. I also wonder what would have happened if we had a better terrorist profiling system.
I wonder what kind of company we would be if we stopped fighting. I wonder what kind of company we would be if the pilots did not cause an illegal sick out costing the company millions. I wonder where the apa would be if the company forced them to pay the fine.
But we will all still wonder because we need to look to the future and save this company
If we would have had safer cockpit doors along time ago would that have stopped 9/11. You and I can not answer that question. I also wonder what would have happened if we had a better terrorist profiling system.
I wonder what kind of company we would be if we stopped fighting. I wonder what kind of company we would be if the pilots did not cause an illegal sick out costing the company millions. I wonder where the apa would be if the company forced them to pay the fine.
But we will all still wonder because we need to look to the future and save this company
