General strike?

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N513AU

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Aug 20, 2002
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This crap needs to stop. The entire national infrastructure of the airline industry is in a flat spin. If anyone comes out alive is a serious question. The employees have voluntarily given till it hurts to stem the losses, and their employers are apparently contemplating coming back for more. Thousands upon thousands are unemployed because of this disaster and thousands more are about to be so.
This needs to end. Unlike times in the past, this isn''t one or two failing airlines that are hanging on the edge of oblivion. This is the entire industry. The commercial airline industry, vital to the nation''s economy is in its death throws; add the inpending war in the middle east, and we will see corporate failures stacking up like crazy. There is a place for laizze-faire economics, but this is not it. Doing nothing is going to destroy an essential business and disrupt national and international commerce.
What do we do? Perhaps a European-style general strike is what is needed. On a given day, the whole industry walks. Every employee, every carrier. For best effect, it would be great if we could get rail and bus carriers to go with us as well.
We demands:
1)Immediate cessation of all furloughs and pay cut schemes.
2) Guarunteed recall for ALL laid off employees, not just those in represented labor groups.
3) A sensible regulation program that will ensure that airlines can at least operate profitably.
4. Fair and equitable wages for contract company employees. RJ Carriers need equal pay with mainline. Farm out maintenance base workers need comparable pay with their airline counterparts. Same work = same pay.
Are you happy with the current situation? Do you want to sit around as Dave comes back for another round? Let your anger and rage build as you think of being thrown out the door, even though you were a good employee. Think of the hell your family will go through as you desperately search for another job for months or years. Where will this end? Are we just going to sit back and let the industry destroy itself? It''s time to remember what labor is all about, boys and girls. Let the games begin.
 

KCFlyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/1/2002 4:08:45 PM LDKIAM wrote:
[P]Blame the Supreme Court and the folks that voted for W, he is anti-union, anti-labor, anti-worker and anti-working class people![/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]So, you're saying if Al were in office, the airlines wouldn't be having any problems?[/P]
 

Cosmo

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Aug 20, 2002
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Go ahead, go on a general strike (forgetting for a moment that it violates U.S. labor law). But I would guess that the folks at Southwest, to name a carrier that is profitable, has had no layoffs, and has not reduced employee salaries, will want no part of it. So all you will have done is hand them as much of your market share as they could take. Brilliant move!

Also remember that when the U.S. airlines were deregulated in 1978, ASMs were about 60% lower than they were in 2000 (the pre-9/11 peak). That means there were a whole lot fewer aircraft, passengers and employees in 1978 than there are today, even after the layoffs we have seen in the last year. Re-regulating the airline industry as you propose is definitely NOT the answer.

In short, while I'm sure your ideas are from the heart, they are truly misguided and would undoubtedly only hasten the demise of the airline industry as we currently know it, and would certainly hasten US Airways' demise. So be VERY careful what you wish for.
 

UAL777flyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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Oh please, everybody knows W had nothing to do with this recession. The seeds were in place before he was even sworn in. It's all about timing. Clinton was lucky enough to ride the recessionary economy of Bush Sr's Administration to victory. Good timing allowed him to take credit for the boom afterwards. These economic cycles occur regardless of who is in office. If we want to blame anyone, let's blame our own industry. The insane business practices of the past 20 years are largely to blame for the financial crisis the airlines are in. The idea of a general strike is laughable. We could have controlled this nightmare on our own by controlling costs. But instead airline industry senior management and union leadership did virtually nothing to control costs. They also have yet to find a way to effectively compete with the ever-growing low-cost carriers.
 

ITRADE

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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/1/2002 4:08:45 PM LDKIAM wrote:
[P]Blame the Supreme Court and the folks that voted for W, he is anti-union, anti-labor, anti-worker and anti-working class people![/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Sorry, I had to lean over and vomit into my trashcan...[/P]
 

LDKIAM

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Oct 29, 2002
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Blame the Supreme Court and the folks that voted for W, he is anti-union, anti-labor, anti-worker and anti-working class people!
 

KCFlyer

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Ditto on that Cosmo. I thought that point number 3 would pretty much negate the possiblity of the other points. I still say that an industrywide focus on improving revenues with value pricing would have far more positive effects for airlines than all the labor cost cutting they are currently doing.
 

mrplanes

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Sep 17, 2002
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Here are some more demands for our strike:

1) Every airline employee gets a new Lexus.
2) Our jobs are guaranteed for our lives.
3) The economy should never affect our careers.
4) No more standby travel. Positive space/first class.
5) Unions will control everything. Just like steel did.
6) No work on weekends or holidays.

Jeez! If you don't like what is happening to this industry/company then vote with your feet and get out! No one HAS to put up with this crap. In this country we are free to pick and choose where and when we work. Just because we've had it good for a while people think we are or should be insulated from the free market, disgusting management, government ineptness or the boogie man. Go find a job in another industry that is better 513AU. You obviously think this one really stinks. I'll tell you this: It will get worse before it gets better. And you can get out tomorrow if you have the will to do so. There are few jobs in this world that don't go through hard times. Quit whining and take it like a man or go find another career that beats this one. They must be out there.

mrplanes
 

LDKIAM

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Oct 29, 2002
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[P][BR][BR]You people have very short term memories.[BR][BR]Three days after the tragic events of September 11, 2001, the airlines had $5 BILLION of our tax dollars in their coffers and a loan program of $10 Billion available with conditions attached to lower our wages, which the ATSB has been succesful in due to Carlos Bonilla, (Bush's economic adivisor) ensuring the ATSB gets concessions from labor at any airline which wants a loan gaurantee.[BR][BR]To this date over 100,000 airline employees and 30,000 Boeing employees have been laid off and the only thing our government has done for them is to extend unemployment benefits to 39 weeks instead of 26 weeks. This administration does not care about working class people especially unionized workers. No president has ever envoked Taft-Hartley in a lock out.[BR][BR]Bush has enacted more Presidential Emergency Boards (PEB) for airline labor disputes in his two years then their has been in the past 50 years.[BR][BR]This is a president that wants to strip homeland security workers of their right to collective bargaining, he all ready signed an executive order pulling collective bargaining rights from certain employees at the Justice Dept, who sued him in federal court and won to keep their rights.[BR][BR]This is a president who will single handily wipe out the airline industry as we know it by attacking Iraq and costing us $9 Billion a month in war costs to get Sadaam cause as Bush said on CNN several weeks ago, How can we trust Sadaam to let the inspectors in when he tried to kill my Daddy.[BR][BR]All I am saying is the acts of this administration cleary favors corporate America and not the working class. Gore at least would have done more for the workers.[BR][BR]Folks, these are facts, open your eyes and look around you and see what is going on around you.[BR][BR]Look at Glenn Tilton at UA, he got $3 million dollar signing bonus, a $950,000 salary and numerous stock and stock options, and now we wants $9 billion from the employees, look at how Wolf and Gangwal raped and pillaged US Airways' finances and then Dave comes in with a $750,000 signing bonus, $16,000 closing costs for a new house, 750,000 stock options, but at least he took a 20% paycut.[BR][BR]The rich get richer and the middle class becomes poor![/P]
[P]You want to help go to these links and get your legislators to support this bill[/P]
[P][A href=http://63.66.87.48/cweb4/index.cfm?orgcode=TTD&hotissue=27]http://63.66.87.48/cweb4/index.cfm?orgcode=TTD&hotissue=27[/A][/P]
[P][A href=http://www.capwiz.com/iamaw/issues/alert/?alertid=746011]http://www.capwiz.com/iamaw/issues/alert/?alertid=746011[/A][/P]
 

KCFlyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/1/2002 4:44:37 PM LDKIAM wrote:
[P][BR][BR][BR]You people have very short term memories.[BR][BR]Three days after the tragic events of September 11, 2001, the airlines had $5 BILLION of our tax dollars in their coffers and a loan program of $10 Billion available with conditions attached to lower our wages, which the ATSB has been succesful in due to Carlos Bonilla, (Bush's economic adivisor) ensuring the ATSB gets concessions from labor at any airline which wants a loan gaurantee.[/P]
[P]Three days after 9/11 Bush was president...wouldn't an anti labor president had just said May the best team win and not put $5 billion towards the airlines? Wouldn't an anti union president had made $0 dollars available in loans available? Is the $10 billion being provided by only airline and aerospace workers? Or might some constituents feel a little unsure about guaranteeing any monies towards companies that in the days leading up to (and indeed the year following) that were facing demands for industry leading wages?[/P]
[P]To this date over 100,000 airline employees and 30,000 Boeing employees have been laid off and the only thing our government has done for them is to extend unemployment benefits to 39 weeks instead of 26 weeks.  This administration does not care about working class people especially unionized workers.  No president has ever envoked Taft-Hartley in a lock out.[/P]
[P]What should the administration have done? IIRC, a lot of Americans weren't flying in the months immediately following 9/11. Should Bush have reimplemented the Civil Conservation Corps to get those folks back to work? What about the non-union telecom workers that don't have jobs? There's more than 130,000 in that industry alone that have become statistics in todays economy. [BR][BR]Bush has enacted more Presidential Emergency Boards (PEB) for airline labor disputes in his two years then their has been in the past 50 years. [/P]
[P]So, if Al would have been president, he wouldn't have tried the same thing? [/P]
[P]This is a president that wants to strip homeland security workers of their right to collective bargaining, he all ready signed an executive order pulling collective bargaining rights from certain employees at the Justice Dept, who sued him in federal court and won to keep their rights.[/P]
[P]Not many unions in Federal Government jobs. Never has been. Homeland Security is a government department. [BR][BR]This is a president who will single handily wipe out the airline industry as we know it by attacking Iraq and costing us $9 Billion a month in war costs to get Sadaam cause as Bush said on CNN several weeks ago, How can we trust Sadaam to let the inspectors in when he tried to kill my Daddy.[/P]
[P]I do tend to agree with you that his stance on Iraq has been somewhat zealous.[BR][BR]All I am saying is the acts of this administration cleary favors corporate America and not the working class. Gore at least would have done more for the workers.[/P]
[P]I wouldn't be so sure about that. There isn't much more that Gore could have done for workers, and if you don't think Gore or Clinton favored corporate America, how can you explain the growth of Enron and Worldcom for the previous 8 years?[BR][BR]Folks, these are facts, open your eyes and look around you and see what is going on around you.[/P]
[P]I don't see anything the Bush could be called responsible for.[BR][BR]Look at Glenn Tilton at UA, he got $3 million dollar signing bonus, a $950,000 salary and numerous stock and stock options, and now we wants $9 billion from the employees, look at how Wolf and Gangwal raped and pillaged US Airways' finances and then Dave comes in with a $750,000 signing bonus, $16,000 closing costs for a new house, 750,000 stock options, but at least he took a 20% paycut.[/P]
[P]No argument there, but I think W&G were really raking in the dough when Clinton was in office. Executive pay is out of control, but it has nothing to do with who's sitting in the White HOuse. [BR][BR]The rich get richer and the middle class becomes poor![/P]
[P]I'm solidly middle class, and while I won't be owning any homes with a 10 car garage anytime soon, I'm still hanging in there. [BR][BR]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
 

ITRADE

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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/1/2002 5:45:32 PM LDKIAM wrote:
[P][BR][STRONG][EM][FONT color=#ff3300]KC FLYER WROTE[/FONT][/EM][/STRONG][BR][BR][BR][BR][FONT color=#ff0033][FONT color=#000033]If a President can order airline workers back to work in the interest of national security, he whould have instructed the airlines to help the employees as much as possible and not provide corporate welfare while people lose everything they have and Wolf still enjoys his French wines.[/FONT][/FONT][BR][BR][FONT color=#ff0033][EM][STRONG]So, if Al would have been president, he wouldn't have tried the same thing? [/STRONG][/EM][BR][/FONT][BR][BR][FONT color=#ff0033][FONT color=#000033]No Al would have not, Democrats let labor and management work it out, Clinton was President in 1999 when we were ready to go out and no PEB was Created, nor did Clinton order NWA's Pilots back to work when they went on strike.  A strike is the only thing labor has when it deals with a company that does not want to be fair, by taking away that right you tip the scale to management and treat workers unjust.[/FONT][/FONT][BR][BR]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Pardon me, but who invoked a PEB two minutes after AA's pilots went on strike?[/P]
 

wnbubbleboy

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
944
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By God Indiana
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/1/2002 4:08:45 PM LDKIAM wrote:

Blame the Supreme Court and the folks that voted for W, he is anti-union, anti-labor, anti-worker and anti-working class people!
----------------
[/blockquote]
The blame should go to the 19 murdering Saudi's.
 

LDKIAM

Member
Oct 29, 2002
99
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The saudis might have done the attack, but they did not do the things I posted, keep the issues relavant
 

geo1004

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
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Expenses exceed revenue ... the PROBLEM is that simple.

The SOLUTION, however, is not simple.

There are dozens of major factors at play here. Trying to pin it down to one cause is really quite silly.

Warren Buffett was right. The best thing for airline investors would have been if the Wright Bros. had never made it off the ground. As for airline employees, I hope and pray the effects of this major decline in air travel corrects itself soon. Unfortunately, I think we have a long way to go before this one is over.


I think that a general strike by the U.S. airline industry would be about as successful as my attempt in 1st grade to hold my breath until I got a new bike!
 
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