Get Ready Boyz!

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
5,998
347
It's official, United stopped the pension!


United makes pension cuts official

November 8, 2004

BY MARY WISNIEWSKI Business Reporter
Advertisement


After warning about it for months, bankrupt United Airlines finally announced that it would end its employee pension plans. Now its unions are digesting the information and deciding what to do.

"It's really not new, but it's in black and white now," said Joe Tiberi, spokesman for the machinists' union, which has sued United Airlines officials to protect pensions. He said the details of United's proposal are being reviewed.

A spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association said union officials would meet for discussions in the middle of the month before responding.

In a statement, the flight attendants' union called the proposed cuts "disastrous" and promised to fight the company "over every dime."

Apart from ending the pension plan, United is asking flight attendants for almost $138 million annually in new concessions.

United Chief Executive Glenn Tilton told employees last week that the industry had been hit hard by high fuel costs and low fares, and that it needed to save an additional $2 billion a year, on top of $5 billion in cuts already planned.

One third of the new savings would come from labor costs, a second third from pension replacements, and the rest from non-labor cuts. Tilton said that he and seven other executives would take 15 percent pay cuts.

United hopes it will be able to negotiate with the unions representing pilots, machinists, mechanics and flight attendants for consensual agreement on the cuts, said Jean Medina, United spokeswoman. United asked the bankruptcy court to set hearings in case the unions can't reach agreement with the airline.

"They have to go to the bankruptcy court to make the request, and show that the plan is necessary for its survival," said Randy Clerihue, spokesman for Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., a federal agency that acts as a safety net for company pension plans.

The PBGC said in August it would be liable for $6.4 billion in pension obligations if United ends all four plans, which cover 119,000 workers and retirees. Since the plans are underfunded by $8.3 billion, workers and retirees could lose $1.9 billion in benefits, the PBGC said.

United has disputed this, saying the agency would only have to cover about $1.7 billion, and that most retirees would see no reduction in their payments.

The PBGC said in August that covering United's obligations could endanger other plans covered by the insurance program.

"There's a lot of concern that the PBGC is overextended," said Michael Kushner, an employee benefits attorney with Coudert Brothers in New York.





Last week, a JFK mechanic met Bobby Gless on the employee bus as he returned from a trip.
When asked about what is going on at AA, Gless responded that whatever happens at United WILL happen at American. Gless then told the mechanic that American will be more like AirTran than anyother airline.

Sounds to me like the TWU is already prepared to have us bent over for a final reaming. Since Little can sign off on any new concession package without a vote if he deems it the best way to continue, I would say it is a safe bet that we are screwed.
 
Wait! Wait! everything will be alright. There is no call for alarm. We have the twu protecting our profession. The twu belongs to the afl-cio! For Heaven's sake, the twu took concessions to save jobs! Do not fear. The unelected industrial leaders in the airlines will take care of everything. We will all simply take more pay & benefit cuts to save even more jobs. Don't worry. Listen to the twu supporters who are afraid to post their identities. The twu saved jobs! THOUSANDS of jobs! So what if the concessions were not voted on by the membership. So what if the concessions that were to save jobs turned into concessions AND lay-offs. So what if the twu fights against their members instead of for them. This is the twu people! Where the international officers don't take pay cuts when the members do. The twu will simply represent the scab outfits that AA hires to replace us. The twu will be taken care of. Don't worry! :ph34r:
 
Nightwatch said:
Could be worse, could be protected by AMFA.
[post="199423"][/post]​

nw, aka coward, you are still wrong. It IS already worse. we have the twu. You supported a dieing union, the iam, and now you continue to support another industrial union that does nothing to protect our profession. If I knew your identity I would call you by name a leech on this proud profession. But since you require to remain in the shadows of fear perhaps you will never know what reality is.

The twu... a union that thrives on people like nw.
 
How in the heck can you ignorant amfa supporters continue to defend that worthless piece of crap you call a union. Thanks to their hard a** stance of "NO CONCESSION-BANKRUPTCY IS BETTER" BS the profession of AMT is just about to be flushed down the toilet. Oh, but wait, those mechanics make a buck or two more. Well, because of your greedy a**es you have now affected even more of your fellow mechanics as well as the retirees. And yes, as much as I hate to admit it, what is happeneing at UAL right now could very well happen at AA. I guess you think that AA (or any other major) can compete with a debunked, gov't protected, airline who will now have NO pensions to support, have less than half of the staff they had 3 years ago and less than half of the work done in-house. Hell, will they have any work done in-house??? Doesn't look good does it?? Tell me amfa wannabes, what will amfa do to stop management now???????? What will amfa do to protect what is left of the profession?

Amfa's handy work has been done and the damage is irreversible. Now, go ahead and deny any responsibilty and blame the TWU. We now know the truth of what happens when greed takes over the minds of worthless human beings who think they deserve more then the next guy.

You amfa boys should be very proud of yourselves!! Hey, I hear Delle is afraid to show his puny self. Wonder why???? Here's a prediction.....amfa members will be wittled down to almost nothing and Delle will throw in the towel within the next 5 years and let someone else clean up his crap!! COWARD!!!!!

Please tell us again, why are you supporting amfa? :huh:



(cleaned up post!!!!!) :angry: :angry: :angry:
 
Why do you conveniently leave out the situation at USAIR with the IAM boys!
 
Hopeful said:
Why do you conveniently leave out the situation at USAIR with the IAM boys!
[post="200147"][/post]​
you just dont get it man, its all AMFA's fault they are dragging the INDUSTRY down. so what they negotiated the largest pay increase for AMT's in history its all about JOBS and DUES flow, so what we at AA have hundreds here in TULSA standing around with no work to accomplish, at least they are good dues paying members and get to clock in every day to play cards and read books! :shock: YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT? :blink:
 
Hopeful said:
Why do you conveniently leave out the situation at USAIR with the IAM boys!
[post="200147"][/post]​


Becausee I was talking to you amfa wannabes!!!

But just to clear things up with you, I have never been a big fan of the IAM anyway either.



WHY CAN'T YOU GUYS ADMIT THAT BK WAS THE WRONG WAY TO GO?????????? IT'S OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
 
twuer said:
Becausee I was talking to you amfa wannabes!!!

But just to clear things up with you, I have never been a big fan of the IAM anyway either.
WHY CAN'T YOU GUYS ADMIT THAT BK WAS THE WRONG WAY TO GO?????????? IT'S OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
[post="200192"][/post]​

The ultimate failure rests with the twu because they started concessions in this industry. Tell me something twuer, where is all the powerful afl-cio strength your elected twu international officers, oops, I mean appointed sellouts, keep bragging about? Where is this strength helping our profession at USAir?

You just don't get it do you. The twu is at fault not AMFA. Remind us again how it was the iam that allowed a/c to go overseas at NWA and the twu did nothing to help the iam fight this injustice. Remind us all again of the rallys the twu organized to fight FAR Part 145. Parading coffins up a Tulsa street don't count as fighting for our profession.

The twu... where our supporters are brain dead. Just the way we like them. :ph34r:
 
twuer said:
How in the heck can you ignorant amfa supporters continue to defend that worthless piece of crap you call a union. Thanks to their hard a** stance of "NO CONCESSION-BANKRUPTCY IS BETTER" BS the profession of AMT is just about to be flushed down the toilet. Oh, but wait, those mechanics make a buck or two more. Well, because of your greedy a**es you have now affected even more of your fellow mechanics as well as the retirees. And yes, as much as I hate to admit it, what is happeneing at UAL right now could very well happen at AA. I guess you think that AA (or any other major) can compete with a debunked, gov't protected, airline who will now have NO pensions to support, have less than half of the staff they had 3 years ago and less than half of the work done in-house. Hell, will they have any work done in-house??? Doesn't look good does it?? Tell me amfa wannabes, what will amfa do to stop management now???????? What will amfa do to protect what is left of the profession?

Amfa's handy work has been done and the damage is irreversible. Now, go ahead and deny any responsibilty and blame the TWU. We now know the truth of what happens when greed takes over the minds of worthless human beings who think they deserve more then the next guy.

You amfa boys should be very proud of yourselves!! Hey, I hear Delle is afraid to show his puny self. Wonder why???? Here's a prediction.....amfa members will be wittled down to almost nothing and Delle will throw in the towel within the next 5 years and let someone else clean up his crap!! COWARD!!!!!

Please tell us again, why are you supporting amfa? :huh:
(cleaned up post!!!!!) :angry: :angry: :angry:
[post="200125"][/post]​

Your circular thinking is interesting if not disturbing.

The fact of the matter is that the UAL M&R fought concessions up to BK while in the meantime USAir and AA (ALL Unions!!!) were giving all as asked without a fight. This has lowered the bar for everyone else. If your even had half a brain, you would be supporting AMFA to shutdown UAL so that this ‘disease’ can be controlled.

However, you and your ‘ilk’ will continue to berate anyone that might have the intestinal fortitude (which you lack) to say ‘ENOUGH’!!!

What is really sad, is when this train comes down your track again (as it will), you will always place blame on someone else without taking into account your own actions in this fiasco.

Battered wife syndrome and transference is a common trait amongst those that have no backbone.

We at UAL also have our ‘Nightwatch’, ‘CIO’, and IAMer (TWUer) members. Sadly, they are so caught up in their ‘Union Affiliation’ to realize that their ‘Union’ is not affiliated with them and (IMHO) never were.

My question is ‘How in the heck can you continue to support a ‘union?’ that does not reflect the desires of the membership?’

Someone once said “To repeat the same experiment over and over and expect different results is Insanity.â€￾

Are you all ‘Insane’???

B) UT
 
Amfa made a choice to be separate from others. They have claimed to be superior. Here is your opportunity to show us all!

You claim to represent 8 Airlines, so go and organize them for a rally and show the rest of us how it is done! Bring the Airlines to their knees! Go ahead and strike United and see what will happen!

Amfa has destroyed moral one lie at a time!
 
Checking it Out said:
Amfa made a choice to be separate from others. They have claimed to be superior. Here is your opportunity to show us all!

You claim to represent 8 Airlines, so go and organize them for a rally and show the rest of us how it is done! Bring the Airlines to their knees! Go ahead and strike United and see what will happen!

Amfa has destroyed moral one lie at a time!
[post="200371"][/post]​


CIO:

You want to talk about morale?

Ok, we took concessions up the A** to avoid layoffs because qoute, "it was better than bankruptcy", end quote!

Now, there are hundreds, and it will be thousands of mechanics being displace!

Morale when we took concessions but the TWU officers did not "share the pain" as Littled demanded of American.


Ok CIO, AMFA destroyed morale.....
 
Name: AMT 30 yrs UAL
Email:
Employer: UNITED
Station: ORD
Date: Thursday November 11, 2004
Time: 05:08:56 PM


Comments
OK "B" Scalers, you wanted AMFA, now what? Its time for Delle to show some balls. I'm 100 per-cent sure AMFA will bring back a concessionary pact for us to vote on. Didn't all the AMFA supporters state AMFA would "never" discuss concessions? A long time ago I was told "Be careful what you wish for." AMFA at UAL is about to set back AMT wages and benefits at all airlines. Pensions??? They are gone.
 
James T. Kirk said:
Name: AMT 30 yrs UAL
Email:
Employer: UNITED
Station: ORD
Date: Thursday November 11, 2004
Time: 05:08:56 PM
Comments
OK "B" Scalers, you wanted AMFA, now what? Its time for Delle to show some balls. I'm 100 per-cent sure AMFA will bring back a concessionary pact for us to vote on. Didn't all the AMFA supporters state AMFA would "never" discuss concessions? A long time ago I was told "Be careful what you wish for." AMFA at UAL is about to set back AMT wages and benefits at all airlines. Pensions??? They are gone.
[post="200428"][/post]​


Another one who fails to mention the IAM bending over at USAIR.

Why doesn't the IAM shut USAIR down?


The same reason that then IAM international president William Wipinsinger was so afraid of going to jail that he would not allow the Railroads to support the Easterna Airlines strikers.

Before you call AMFA spineless, look to the IAM for a lesson in cowardice!
 
the spineless twu has led the industry in concessions now all the other carriers are just coming down to our level. AMFA did'nt start the concession snow ball the communist TWU did!