Good to be the King!


Dec 21, 2002
By now most have heard that Carty, his wife, and child bumped 3 First Class passengers and gave each of them $500 vouchers. The Carty clan was heading to Puerta Vallerta. As you will see by Flaptrack's folling replies, Carty has well earned the vacation! In these tought times for AA, do you think it was necessary to give these F/C passengers the $$$$$ already having paid for their tickets?


Aug 20, 2002
Wrong, the Union w/ the private jet is the IAM, at AA the Union representing the Mechanics, Ramp, Dispatch,...etc., is the TWU. (not saying they're any better, but, they don't have any jets listed on their LM-2's.)


Dec 3, 2002
St. Louis
WOW! Flap-CRACK! You must be one of those Republican Union members...good-luck!

You're right up there with Log Cabin Republicans!

I would prefer to be Independent but however I can cause the "most damage" is where I belong.

Yeah, right, John Ward has access to the corporate jet...

Please state your job/position in AA so we can truly "know" who you are...


Aug 20, 2002
If Don Carty is truly the pig that you say he is --- then he would have flown on the corporate jet. Oh, but American does not have one of those. But I think the President of your Union has one.



Dec 3, 2002
St. Louis
On 2/17/2003 5:55:29 PM flaptrack wrote:


Can you schedule 2700 flights and 95,000 people a day? I think you give yourself too much credit.

umm, no, flaptrack, you give yourself too much credit. I've watched staff assistants (max at just over $12/hr) set up manning and flight assignments for a major hub bagroom. THEN I watched level 3/4/5 managers take the credit without A CLUE as to how it all fit into place.

If you actually stepped out of Centerport and talked to the "great unwashed", you could very well learn something.

Examples - 1) when I was an agent, I once mischieviously suggested to MIA OPS that we schedule 882/998 EWR/BOS to depart at 9:30pm every night since that was after the replacement A300s came in. JFK would "steal" the equipment to protect the LHR connections, night after night. Guess what? A300s usually have mntc issues.

Who in (s)Crew Scheduling is responsible for the MCO-MIA turn with the almost 4 hr sit before going to BOS? The F/As are illegal quite frequently due to Mntc. There are not many A300 domestic reserves available.

2) what brainiac at Centerport comes up with minimum boarding times for a quick-turn? 17 mins to board a FULL N/B 757? Have you actually been on this airplane? It's treated as a "wide-body" but only has 1 aisle! Even with expanded O/H bins and MRTC, IMPOSSIBLE! Ramp-side, it is a free-loaded A/C...154 paxs X 2 bags average per pax = 18+ bags per minute on a NB loader....maybe you can speed up the belt but what super-human can stack that fast?

3) Yield-Management - a great program but why is it every summer, MIA must have their own YM person? Answer - they understand MIA and the trends by being "in the field". Yes, you can overbook most Latin American destinations by 40-60 most of the year. However, when their vacations come up, they are like Europe and all go on vacation at the same time. At these times you cannot overbook these flights and there is NO PROTECT. We pay vouchers and usually have to add extra sections.

My personal favorite was after a hellish weekend/NYC holiday, YM from HDQ showed up on a Tuesday, wanting to know what happened! I told them they were a day late and a dollar short.

I am not "puffing" myself up by any means, I am merely saying that if you actually talked to people in "the line of fire", you would be very surprised at their knowledge.

My greatest life lessons have been learned in the "lowliest" jobs in the US. I delivered pizza and learned that if you promised delivery within an hour but made it in 30 minutes, people were quite happy. If you promised delivery in 30 minutes but it took 1 hour, people were not happy. We work in a people profession...think about it.

My guess is that you are level 2 management, possibly even level 3. Care to fully disclose?


Dec 21, 2002
Key Flaptrack: Are you that naive to believe ONE man runs AA? There are a slew of people who drudge through equipment and flight scheduling. If Carty was solely responsible for scheduling and running AA, then there is no way in the world that he could ever take a vacation, no could there?

Excellent posts!

I deleted that message because it wasn't mine. It was an email I received from someone. But I did reinsert the basics of the post!


Aug 20, 2002
Visit site
Remember when?

"Out of the shadow; Don Carty is finally erasing the brand of Robert Crandall from American Airlines"

Wednesday, January 10, 2001
By Dan Reed
Fort Worth (TX) Star-Telegram

FORT WORTH -- American Airlines Chairman Don Carty will emerge today -- at
long last, according to some doubters -- from the shadow of his former boss,
the fiery Robert Crandall.

Carty will be in New York to announce the details of American's complicated
twin deals to acquire most of the assets of Trans World Airlines, which is
in bankruptcy protection, and about 20 percent of US Airways for between $3
billion and $3.5 billion.

And with those deals -- assuming that the company gets the necessary legal
and governmental approvals -- the airline built by the legendary C.R. Smith,
saved by the cagey Al Casey, and turned into a juggernaut by Crandall will
become, in the eyes of many around the industry, Carty's American.

"We've all been wondering what Don Carty's strategy was going to be, what it
was that would define how American would be perceived and understood as a
result of his stewardship of the company," said airline industry economist
Darryl Jenkins, director of the Aviation Institute at George Washington
University in Washington, D.C.

"Well, now we know," he said. "This is no longer Bob Crandall's airline.
This is Don Carty's airline now."

Jenkins, who meets with American and other carriers on a frequent basis,
candidly admits that he, like a number of other analysts, consultants and
former and current industry executives, haven't known what to make of Carty
or American since Carty took over as chairman and chief executive officer in
May 1998.

Jenkins carefully places himself among Carty's "doubters and wonderers."
There's also been a significant number of harsher Carty critics.

They have never doubted the tall, gray-haired Canadian's intellectual depth
or financial acumen. But Carty's amiable manner stands in stark contrast to
Crandall's intensely aggressive style. Similarly, Carty's desire to spend
more time away from work and with his new wife and child is a big change
from Crandall, a classic 12- to 15-hour-a-day workaholic.

Those differences -- and the lack of any major trend-setting innovations or
deals like those that rolled out of Crandall's American for 20 years, as if
it was a factory for such things -- had many industry observers wondering if
Carty was up to the job.

Carty has not yet spoken about his airline's pending announcements, and
company officials have also declined to speak publicly.

The list of American's innovations under Crandall is impressive: Advanced
purchase discount fares. Frequent-flier programs. Modern hub-and-spoke
airline networks. Computer reservations systems. Advance boarding passes. A
tripling of the fleet in eight years. Expansion to Europe. Lightning-quick
expansion into, and domination of, South America. The two-tier wage systems
that fueled the industry's growth in the 1980s and still contribute to its
legacy of labor unrest today. Long-term, multibillion-dollar airplane order
deals. Inventive ways to finance new planes and facilities. Even the bold,
but ultimately failed "everyday low pricing" strategy known as "The Value

Carty was very much a part of the team that helped Crandall. But, since
taking over as CEO, he has a much shorter list of achievements he can call
his own.

Carty's hopes of improving what under Crandall were American's frequently
sour relationships with labor have been frustrated.

American's purchase of Reno Air in late 1998 triggered an angry 11-day
sickout by about 2,500 pilots in February 1999. And a new contract for
flight attendants -- negotiated without rancor in 1999 -- was, much to
Carty's surprise, overwhelmingly rejected by union members. Now, American's
attendants are growing increasingly frustrated by the lack of a new deal and
are beating the war drums.

Similarly, the Oneworld global airline alliance that Carty and British
Airways Chairman Bob Ayling put together in 1998 hasn't worked out the way
Carty had planned.

It was an effort to catch up with the Star Alliance formed by United and
Lufthansa airlines. But Oneworld has been decidedly less successful than
Star in stimulating new business for its member carriers. Oneworld's
performance was even a factor in Ayling's ouster last year at BA.

The closest thing to a big innovation that Carty can claim is American's
successful "More Room Throughout Coach" marketing plan introduced last year.
That program represents a dramatic departure from industry belief that
removing seats from planes to give passengers more legroom will produce
smaller, not larger, revenues. But it hasn't exactly changed the world. None
of American's competitors has yet matched the concept.

"In fairness," Jenkins said of the doubts about Carty that have bubbled
since it became obvious that he was Crandall's heir-apparent in the
mid-1990s, "that's probably more because he's not Bob Crandall than anything
that Don has done, or not done.

"With Bob, there was never any doubt or wondering about what American's
position on things was, or where it was headed," Jenkins said. "Those things
haven't been nearly as clear about American under Don as they were under
Bob. But now they are. Now we know where he wants to take this company."

Michael Boyd, an Evergreen, Colo., consultant who at times has been critical
of American's management under Crandall and Carty, agrees.

Carty's influence, and his willingness to challenge industry dogma, such as
the belief that there was no point to buying the struggling TWA, were keys
to putting the TWA and US Airways assets deals together, he said.

"In the history of the airline business, there's probably never been a more
complicated, more intricately put-together deal, set of deals, as this one,"
Boyd said. "It took a lot to be able to see how these very different pieces
not only could be put together to make money, but also to see how to put
them together in a way that it makes it very likely that they will probably
get all the necessary government approvals. Now that's impressive, and Carty
deserves the credit for that."

Jenkins agreed, saying that American's pending announcements will put the
airline in position to be the industry's dominant player along with United.

He noted that American will solve one of its increasingly nagging
problems -- severe congestion at its Chicago O'Hare hub -- by acquiring
TWA's efficient St. Louis hub. The package plan also includes the
acquisition of airplanes, airport facilities, and half the US Airways
Shuttle operation from US Airways.

"Add the assets they're getting in the East from US Airways to what they're
already doing in the East on their own, then couple that with the St. Louis
hub, their existing big hubs at Chicago and [Dallas/Fort Worth Airport] and
what they've done in the western part of the country in the past year or so,
and you can see that American is positioning itself superbly to compete in
every single market region," Jenkins said.

"Not only will they become the biggest carrier at Reagan National Airport
in Washington, and not only will they get half of the Boston-New
York-Washington shuttle, American is already building up in Boston," he
added. "They're building a $2.5 billion new terminal at Kennedy Airport in
New York. They are growing throughout the Northeast. They've got a very
strong hub at Miami, and a smaller hub at San Juan that now will get better
access to all those population centers of the northeast and mid-Atlantic

"Beyond that, American is already the biggest competitor on the
transcontinental routes, and the addition of the St. Louis hub will
significantly improve their reach into the major and secondary transcon
routes. It's just a very good deal. And one that should make them a lot of
money. They're picking up a lot of additional earnings with these deals. And
Don has to get credit for that. He's definitely putting his stamp on
American with this deal."

***** ***** ***** ***** *****​
Things don't always work out the way we think they will.


Dec 21, 2002
I hope Kirkpatrick is not implying that without the purchase of TWA, we would have been worse off!


Aug 22, 2002
On 2/18/2003 7:44:58 AM kirkpatrick wrote:

Not right away, but all the predicted advantages of buying TWA will eventually come true.

But can we save ourselves NOW?


Aug 20, 2002
On 2/18/2003 8:03:05 AM Hopeful wrote:

I hope Kirkpatrick is not implying that without the purchase of TWA, we would have been worse off!

What I think he means is that the TWA folks would have been worst off if AA did not buy TWA.