Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[BABABOOY]

That's the beauty of collective bargaining; if you all want it to stay, it will. If you want it improved, you negotiate accordingly.

 
again the consensus will be whatever that majority wants.
It will be an ALL ABOUT ME attitude if we go down the road with a Union.
People will advocate for themselves.
examples.  
A day program.   if we have any say in going back to a reserve system, I guarantee
that those with over 10 years seniority will campaign hard to go back to FULL RESERVE.  
and of course people are not saying ANYTHING about this online because they don't want to scare people and loose 
the "Junior votes"
LOD positions,  of course those online will NOT say anything concerning this program. 
However the NON LANGUAGE F/A's will campaign HARD to try and do away with this program or at the
very least reduce it.  The Majority is NON language and that those f/a's are viewed as taking away positions.
No one is saying anything because they will loose "LOD votes"

 

[Kev3188]

Rounds suck. JMHO.

Our CBA allowed for either bidding in rounds, or in seniority order. A station could vote on how the wanted to do it every year (assuming there was interest in changing the method in place). Rounds never got more than a couple of votes in any station I was in...

 

[Kev3188]

 
again the consensus will be whatever that majority wants.
It will be an ALL ABOUT ME attitude if we go down the road with a Union.
People will advocate for themselves.
examples.  

That's how it is right now.

 

[BABABOOY]

That's how it is right now.

Not in Inflight. See my examples

 

[Airlinelifer]

Lots of words typed, opinions,  but no definition on:
 
A Days -
 
LOD's -
 
And.......seniority is everything....especially in the airline industry.
 
If you want better days off/trips/vacation, you put in the years. 
 
So your a junior employee and you want better days off/trips/vacation, maybe you should consider transferring* to those stations/bases where your seniority has a better chance at attaining those better days off/trips/vacation, or just "wait your turn" just like everybody else has.
 
I waited 25 years at a spoke station to get "partial" weekends on the shift I want, or bid weekends on a shift I don't, point is, I stayed at my home station and waited, just like the senior employees ahead of me and what the junior employees will have to do.
 
*Transfer/transferring - Now that's a whole other enigma wrapped in a mystery inside a riddle.

 

[southwind]

A union for the FAs would be run by the DL FAs with their own District, seems to work well for the Pilots and Dispatchers and about 80% of the rest of the industry.
 
And you arent a FA, so you are an outsider to that group, just like how DL is paying Ford and Harrison, you know an outside third party firm over $10 million do run the anti-campaign.

Again, I will state, "What affects DL, affects me, one way or another". So, you can leave now, unless you have a vested interest in one side or the other!

 

[southwind]

exactly. 
 
Let me #### about what the IAM does 
 
then do it myself and when i get called out jump to the personal acts. 
 
 
 
and then a few pages later when 700 does let me flip out. 
 
 
round and round we go. Typical for the company does no wrong types though.

Who says the company does no wrong?
Problem is some people think the union does all "RIGHT"!
At least I have a vested interest as to what happens at DL, unlike others here, who supposedly has no connection with either group, and only want those involved with the vote to know that voting in the IAM is not all rainbows and lollipops, as some some would suggest!

 

[Kev3188]

And.......seniority is everything....especially in the airline industry.
 
If you want better days off/trips/vacation, you put in the years. 
 
So your a junior employee and you want better days off/trips/vacation, maybe you should consider transferring* to those stations/bases where your seniority has a better chance at attaining those better days off/trips/vacation, or just "wait your turn" just like everybody else has.
 
I waited 25 years at a spoke station to get "partial" weekends on the shift I want, or bid weekends on a shift I don't, point is, I stayed at my home station and waited, just like the senior employees ahead of me and what the junior employees will have to do.
 
*Transfer/transferring - Now that's a whole other enigma wrapped in a mystery inside a riddle.

^This^

 

[southwind]

And the problem is?

Took me 9.5 years to top out. It will take the younger guys 8 because of the scale change....so be it!

 

[700UW]

Ask the Ready Reserve about their raises, no benefits and top out pay?
 
Hint RR are taking the place of true mainline employees.

 

[WorldTraveler]

RRs are taking the place of outsourced employees at other airlines. Only those wíth their eyes closed are unable to see that other airlines that don't have the option to use an RR type program are the ones that are outsourcing jobs - and still keeping their own in-house employees at lower pay.

As someone who has worked both in scale and merit positions at DL, it is my firm belief that DL's approach is more of a blend of the two for all employees than any other airline.

and DL itself is the equalizing force that prevents any workgroup from gaining control over others and to keep any workgroup from being excessively focused on the wishes of some groups to the expense of others.


Pass benefits are precisely an example. There is no workgroup or any person within a workgroup that gets pass benefits any different from anyone else in their workgroup or between other workgroups.

Even in merit positions, seniority does play a role in some aspects of the job.

Other unionized airlines have allowed one workgroup to gain benefits that other workgroups do not have.

and the LOD program is a distinct DL customer service difference that not only has DL used to provide more globally connected service in In-Flight but also in ACS. DL In-Flight can be responsive to the needs of Marketing to put speakers on flights that other airlines cannot because of union restrictions.

and just as DL's FA staffing processes which have allowed greater diversity of seniority on DL's int'l flights which does have marketing advantages which DL is not going to walk away from, DL's LOD program within IFS and ACS and its pass benefits across divisions is not something that a union is going to succeed at changing to the benefit of a subgroup of a company or department.

Let's be clear that some efforts to unionize are attempts to undo these equalizing elements of DL culture which are precisely what has made DL distinctive not only for employees but also for customers not just for a few years since a merger but for decades and decades.

 

[Kev3188]

And the problem is?

Took me 9.5 years to top out. It will take the younger guys 8 because of the scale change....so be it!

Good for you. Took me a little over 5 to do so compared to the 10+ for my counterpart at DL.

But we're talking about A days, and lines of flying/shift bids/RDOs, so I'm wondering what you're point here is?

Do you want to talk about the massive disparity between scales pre & post '09 hires in ACS? The complete lack of a scale for RR's (only 1 step)? Help us out here...

 

[Kev3188]

Again, the idea that A days or LOD's would go away is just silly. I've yet to see/hear anything even close to that, and even if I had, if either are as popular as they're made out to be, they aren't going anywhere. Period.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Only if you are willing to talk about your peers at AA and UA are watching stations closed to outsourcing while DL is finding ways to save the jobs of full-time employees in their present locations while bringing in lower cost labor.

Pro-union peeps can argue all day long about how unfair DL's RR program is but they never seem to be able to admit that there is nothing fair about being uprooted from a job and told to move - and even though DL has to do that at times they have done it far less of late than any other airline.

and when even WN is telling its rampers that it cannot continue to sustain 100% WN staffed stations, even in the US, the notion that a union can prevent outsourcing is just another union promise that will be broken.

and we are in agreement that A days or LOD will go away... but then you and others never want to tell us what will be offered for even the incremental gains that a union claims they can get.

When DL has repeatedly told the FAs that union negotiations involve trading something of value for something else, then the notion that a union can walk in and demand changes at no cost is simply not reality.

and I can assure you that there are indeed FAs who want major enough changes to both of those programs that they will never be happy with anything less than the minimum that exists at other carriers.

DL is not going to create another airline or FA or ramper CBA in the image of what exists at other airlines.

There are deep financial, cultural, and competitive reasons why there is a DL difference and advantage that will not be traded away on certain items.

 

[700UW]

Fear and Threats Kevin, their M.O.