Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[southwind]

That's not how it works.
An employee signs a card--> Card goes to the IAMAW in MD.--> Once it is determined that 50% +1 of eligible employees have turned in cards, the union can petition the NMB for an election. If the NMB confirms that the threshold has been met, an election is then held.

 
Thanks! So there is no time limit that starts when the union sends/passes out cards to the point when they SHOULD have been turned in to be counted?


 

Seriously?
You lost him at "That's not how."

Seriously? And you just gave me another reason to be anti-union!

 

[700UW]

Cards are only good for one year.

 

[southwind]

Cards are only good for one year.

Thanks! And when we're they current cards, for ramp sent out. Know the FAs had to start from scratch.

Also, why should it take 12 months to sign a card, if your so inclined, and send it in?

 

[topDawg]

you whine that DL could do engine overhauls on its own that it sends out and yet give AA a pass because RR terminated the relationship.

Um yes. Delta doesn't have any engine JVs. AA did. Why that is so hard for you to grasp is amazing.

If DL could do any of the work it does inhouse, then so could AA.

Again this isn't correct.
First I don't know how the contract with RR is worked with AA. If AA is under a long term TotalCare agreement for those engines then no, AA can't do the work in-house. They have a contract to for RR to do the work.

These engine shops JVs are very complicated.

On top of that, AA doesn't have anywhere they can do the work, even if they wanted.

What engines does AA do in-house that it DOESN'T DO MRO work for? CF6s, CFMs?

Couldn't tell you. I know they do the JT8D, CF6 and CFM56 in TULE. No idea if they do OAL work and who if they do.

I have never argued that DL doesn't outsource but YOU don't want to accept that DL specializes in a few types of MRO work and does it not only for its own fleet but also does it on an MRO basis.

once again, you say something stupid, I call you out on it then you start rambling.

AA MIGHT do some MRO engine work at TUL but DL is already committed to doing large engine work in ATL that it did not have the capability to do. DL isn't building that facility for just its own 50 Airbus aircraft.

keep repeating it. I have already told you the plan for the new engine shop. Why you can't grasp it, or look into the future I don't know.

but again new test cell has nothing, not a single tinny thing, to do with the engines I talked about. Nothing at all.

again, DL insources to offset the work it sends out.

other carriers simply do not to anywhere near the same degree.

And again, that is completely false.

Delta insources because it brings in money. Period. But it doesn't come close to offseting the work sent out.

second Delta isn't anywhere close to the largest airline MRO. LH, AF/KL, SQ, CX(via HAECO), I think IAG now and a few other are larger (in some cases MUCH larger) than DTO.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so RR out of the blue said they wanted to terminate the relationship, AA had no recourse, and AA had no choice but to outsource work.

Still doesn't explain why AA isn't doing work for other airlines on their engines that are not part of JVs and which they could do regardless of what happens at TAESL.

And you still haven't told us how many engine overhauls DL insources in a year vs. what it outsources... not types but actual numbers of engine overhauls.

 

[Kev3188]

Soooo, is there a drive going on in Tech Ops, then?

 

[WorldTraveler]

not a peep other than dawg who works the keyboard here.

DL is INSOURCING while its peers are outsourcing.

DL is reportedly going to make its mechanics the highest paid passenger carrier mechanics.

Tell us again why DL's Tech Ops professionals would want to mess with a system that is rewarding them so handsomely.

Of course the same question can and is being asked by DL ACS and FAs as well...

 

[southwind]

Thanks! And when we're they current cards, for ramp sent out. Know the FAs had to start from scratch.
Also, why should it take 12 months to sign a card, if your so inclined, and send it in?

Bump!

 

[Kev3188]

That's not how it works, either. Any given card is valid for one year starting the date it is signed. They don't all go out en masse, nor are they all returned on the same day...

 

[WorldTraveler]

southwind,
the process of a 12 month validity on a card is valid. The problem is that it is an administrative nightmare for a union to keep up with.

We have heard NOTHING about the DOJ's investigation of the forged cards - which seems strange - but it is well within the realm of possibility that the prospect of a bunch of 10-11 month old cards pressured SOMEONE to forge cards.

Unless 51% of a work group signs cards immediately (unheard of with a group of 20K employees), a card drive must be an ongoing, long-term expression of interest and that is fair.

 

[robbedagain]

.

 

[topDawg]

so RR out of the blue said they wanted to terminate the relationship, AA had no recourse, and AA had no choice but to outsource work.

How many times to I have to tell you yes. That is exactly how it worked out.
AA can not do the work in Tulsa. It simply is not possible. Just like Delta will be sending its T800s to SIN, they HAVE TO. If Richard wanted to do them in house they have to wait for a Test cell to do them in house, same deal with AA.

Still doesn't explain why AA isn't doing work for other airlines on their engines that are not part of JVs and which they could do regardless of what happens at TAESL.

Can you prove that AA doesn't do work for other airlines on the CF6/CFM56/JT8D?
didn't think so.

And you still haven't told us how many engine overhauls DL insources in a year vs. what it outsources... not types but actual numbers of engine overhauls.

Because that is data that Delta doesn't want me to post. You know better.

FYI I believe you can find how many other airline engine checks are done in-house at DeltaTechOps.com but not sure.

 

[WorldTraveler]

they do post it. It's on Delta Tech Ops website. I don't know how many of its own engine overhauls DL does in house but I can absolutely assure you that DL has by far the best ratio of insourced engine work in the Americas. The same can be said for components. DL doesn't focus on airframe overhauls but yet AA which traditionally has been the leader in the US in doing those in-house is sending them out. in total, DL's overall outsourcing rate net of what it insources puts DL in the best position of US carriers.

and there are more than enough AA people who post on here plus what is said on AA's financial statements to know that they don't do a statistically significant amount of MRO work relative to what they do on their own fleet.

 

[topDawg]

they do post it. It's on Delta Tech Ops website. I don't know how many of its own engine overhauls DL does in house but I can absolutely assure you that DL has by far the best ratio of insourced engine work in the Americas. The same can be said for components. DL doesn't focus on airframe overhauls but yet AA which traditionally has been the leader in the US in doing those in-house is sending them out. in total, DL's overall outsourcing rate net of what it insources puts DL in the best position of US carriers.

and once again not a single part of that has to do with what was said.
Basically you want to toss stones, even when Delta does the same thing, then subject change and ramble when it is pointed out you need to toss those same stones you toss at AA over at DL too.

and there are more than enough AA people who post on here plus what is said on AA's financial statements to know that they don't do a statistically significant amount of MRO work relative to what they do on their own fleet.

I didn't say anything about a significant amount, it takes one engine to make what you said wrong.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, it doesn't amount to just a single engine. All 3 of the big 3 are major, major maintenance operators. WN from the ground up chose to heavily outsource its maintenance. DL ALONE has taken the approach of making MRO a major part of its business model and they are aggressively growing that business.

The big test cell is only part of the issue. AA and UA both operate major fleets for which they could do the same type of work for other carriers but they simply do very little of it.

DL has built Tech Ops to be an engine and component MRO and they use that capability to support DL's fleet while sending other work out.

Other carriers simply do not bring in the same amount of work.

You have repeatedly tried to downplay the amount of work DL brings in while criticizing the work they send out.

I would love to see it ALL done in house and airlines sending their work to DL - but that isn't going to happen and no other US airline is even remotely close to bringing in near as much work as DL does.