Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[topDawg]

no, it doesn't amount to just a single engine. All 3 of the big 3 are major, major maintenance operators. WN from the ground up chose to heavily outsource its maintenance. DL ALONE has taken the approach of making MRO a major part of its business model and they are aggressively growing that business.

The big test cell is only part of the issue. AA and UA both operate major fleets for which they could do the same type of work for other carriers but they simply do very little of it.

DL has built Tech Ops to be an engine and component MRO and they use that capability to support DL's fleet while sending other work out.

Other carriers simply do not bring in the same amount of work.

You have repeatedly tried to downplay the amount of work DL brings in while criticizing the work they send out.

I would love to see it ALL done in house and airlines sending their work to DL - but that isn't going to happen and no other US airline is even remotely close to bringing in near as much work as DL does.

none of that has to do with your power by the hour comment. 
 
just more subject shifting and rambling. 
 
Yes or No
Does Delta send a large amount of its engine work out to other vendors? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

see, you can't admit that DL brings work in that other carriers do not.

Of course DL sends work out. I have acknowledged that repeatedly. The fact that you want to start yet another pissing contest to avoid admitting that no other carrier comes close to bringing in anywhere near the amount of work says far more about you and your internet posting strategy than mine.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

no, it doesn't amount to just a single engine. All 3 of the big 3 are major, major maintenance operators. WN from the ground up chose to heavily outsource its maintenance. DL ALONE has taken the approach of making MRO a major part of its business model and they are aggressively growing that business.

The big test cell is only part of the issue. AA and UA both operate major fleets for which they could do the same type of work for other carriers but they simply do very little of it.

DL has built Tech Ops to be an engine and component MRO and they use that capability to support DL's fleet while sending other work out.

Other carriers simply do not bring in the same amount of work.

You have repeatedly tried to downplay the amount of work DL brings in while criticizing the work they send out.

I would love to see it ALL done in house and airlines sending their work to DL - but that isn't going to happen and no other US airline is even remotely close to bringing in near as much work as DL does.

 
While we (UAL) may not be as large as Delta Tech Ops, to say we do "very little" is inaccurate.
 
 
United Technical Operations is the maintenance, repair and overhaul division of United Airlines. We bring over 85 years of MRO experience, employee talent and operational integrity to our customers. As a full-service global MRO provider, our specialized areas include engines, line maintenance, Global Emergency Maintenance (GEM), landing gear, parts loans, component maintenance and engineering services. United is also proud to support several government programs that encompass a variety of services from our product portfolio.
The United Technical Operations MRO Center, located in San Francisco, is a 2.9 million-square-foot facility that is home to more than 3,500 technicians, management, and support personnel. Our facility includes an engine overhaul shop, narrowbody and widebody airframe docks, component shops and more.
Our Line Maintenance division has over 30 locations throughout the world with major hubs in Chicago, Denver, Guam, Houston, Los Angeles, Newark-New York, San Francisco, Tokyo, and Washington, D.C., with other major maintenance locations in Cleveland and Orlando.
By leveraging United’s many years of experience and leadership in safety, logistics, and operational excellence, United Technical Operations continues to deliver innovative and cost-efficient solutions to more than 40 customers worldwide. Additional airline contract business includes aircraft sales, engine and APU sales and leases as well as ground handling and flight training.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'd like to hear some of what UA does do but I am very much aware that they do insource work. AA does as well.

but from a financial statement perspective, DL is the only US airline that provides a separate financial line for work that it does that is not related to its own operation and that figure is the better part of $1 billion - which is roughly 2% or more of the revenues of each of the 3 US airlines.

 

[topDawg]

see, you can't admit that DL brings work in that other carriers do not.

Of course DL sends work out. I have acknowledged that repeatedly. The fact that you want to start yet another pissing contest to avoid admitting that no other carrier comes close to bringing in anywhere near the amount of work says far more about you and your internet posting strategy than mine.

I do every single time this comes up. Every time. 
 

I'd like to hear some of what UA does do but I am very much aware that they do insource work. AA does as well.

but from a financial statement perspective, DL is the only US airline that provides a separate financial line for work that it does that is not related to its own operation and that figure is the better part of $1 billion - which is roughly 2% or more of the revenues of each of the 3 US airlines.

And again that doesn't mean anything. 
 
I have no idea where AA is now, but at one point a few years ago AA (minus TAESL) was right at 500M in extra revenue from 3rd party work. that is only ~200M from TechOps. With TAESL they were probably above where TechOps is now. 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I'd like to hear some of what UA does do but I am very much aware that they do insource work. AA does as well.

but from a financial statement perspective, DL is the only US airline that provides a separate financial line for work that it does that is not related to its own operation and that figure is the better part of $1 billion - which is roughly 2% or more of the revenues of each of the 3 US airlines.

 
Just because UAL doesn't record its financials how Delta chooses to doesn't validate your statement.  "very little" is inaccurate when describing UALs MRO work

 

[WorldTraveler]

I do every single time this comes up. Every time. 
 
And again that doesn't mean anything. 
 
I have no idea where AA is now, but at one point a few years ago AA (minus TAESL) was right at 500M in extra revenue from 3rd party work. that is only ~200M from TechOps. With TAESL they were probably above where TechOps is now.

except your information is incorrect either/both from AA and DL unless you would like to accuse your employer of falsely claiming to be the largest airline MRO in North America. and unless you can think of an airline in S. America that equals DL Tech Ops in size, my statement about the western hemisphere is correct.

"Delta TechOps is the largest airline MRO in North America and the third largest worldwide. Delta TechOps serves more than 150 aviation and airline customers from around the world, specializing in high-skill work such as engines, components, avionics, airframe and line maintenance. Delta TechOps employs more than 9,600 maintenance repair & overhaul professionals and is one of the most experienced aircraft MRO providers in the world with more than seven decades of aviation expertise."

 

[topDawg]

except your information is incorrect either/both from AA and DL unless you would like to accuse your employer of falsely claiming to be the largest airline MRO in North America. and unless you can think of an airline in S. America that equals DL Tech Ops in size, my statement about the western hemisphere is correct.

"Delta TechOps is the largest airline MRO in North America and the third largest worldwide. Delta TechOps serves more than 150 aviation and airline customers from around the world, specializing in high-skill work such as engines, components, avionics, airframe and line maintenance. Delta TechOps employs more than 9,600 maintenance repair & overhaul professionals and is one of the most experienced aircraft MRO providers in the world with more than seven decades of aviation expertise."

Largest in the world/US/NA whatever is just like largest airline. I can find plenty of stats to make DL/AA or UA the worlds largest.
Example, revenue. Q3 expected revenue would make DL the largest. RPMs makes AA the largest.

Having said that, I didn't say AA was larger than DL now. I said a few years ago.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am aware of what you said.

DL is making the claim about being the largest airline MRO in N. America and the 3rd largest in the world right now.

If you would like to provide us with a stat that shows that in some form AA or UA are more significant in the US airline MRO business, then I'd love to see it.

and the relevance to this discussion is simply that DL insources a significant amount of work which does offset what it outsources.

and even if you want to argue that AA and US shouldn't be counted as a single airline because they have separate maintenance contracts, DL's net outsourcing not only compares very favorably against UA - which outsources half of its maintenance dollars but also against AA which doesn't have the insourcing revenue even though by itself it has lower outsourcing - for now. Given that AA is reporting to the DOT under a single ops certificate, it will be very hard for you or anyone else to try to pick out what was AA and what was US just because of labor agreements.

America West's last DOT data was filed for the 2005 year and they ended with 69% maintenance outsourcing. In 2004, US was at 37% maintenance outsourcing but as of 2005, US jumped to 58% maintenance outsourcing where they have remained plus or minus 3 percent for a decade. AA's maintenance outsourcing ratio will take a big jump in 2016 as AA and US report under a single certificate, just as happened with HP and US a decade ago.

DL simply will look very favorable compared to the rest of the industry when AA and US report under a single certificate and DL is at worst comparable to AA and perhaps a whole lot better with UA and WN having higher rates of outsourcing than UA and WN as well as LCCs.

 

[townpete]

 

[700UW]

Gee an anti-union source.
 
 
Your source is funded by the RTWC.

 

[townpete]

Gee an anti-union source.
 
 
Your source is funded by the RTWC.

 
So you're saying you don't deny that Bruce Raynor said it?
 
wow

 

[700UW]

 
So you're saying you don't deny that Bruce Raynor said it?
 
wow

He is PAID to say anti-union statements.

 

[WorldTraveler]

He is PAID to say anti-union statements.

now ^^THAT^^ right there is just plain funny

 

[townpete]

He is PAID to say anti-union statements.

 
So you're are saying you don't deny that Bruce Raynor said it?
 
wow
 
just plain wow