Gripes!

ICUNMCO

Newbie
Aug 29, 2002
14
0
OK! I have had ENOUGH!
Seatbelt signs! Why are they there, if nobody ever pays attention to them?
For the past 5 years I have been flying, I have never understood why people never seem to see the seatbelt sign?
EXAMPLE! I was working today, BNA-MDW. We were carrying about 85 passengers and we were completely boarded 10 minutes before we pushed back. The Captain told the passengers in his welcome speech that it would be bumpy on the way to MDW and that the seatbelt sign would probably stay turned on. Did anyone think to go use the bathroom while they had the chance? NO!
So, we get in-flight and the Captain calls back to tell us to stay seated. I was sitting on the rear jumpseat doing my best not to get sick in the turbulence, when this man bounced off the walls and walked into the bathroom. I politely make a PA, asking passengers to stay seated. Did anyone listen? NO! No less than 5 people came back to use the restroom, each one I explain that they should be seated. It got to the point that at one time there were 2 people standing in the back galley holding onto handles to stay steady.
My problem is not with people who have medical problems and cannot hold it. My problem is with people that have sat in the gate area for at least an hour, then sit on the plane at the gate for 30 minutes, waiting till the plane is in the air to use the bathroom. If it''s not safe for me to be up, then they surely should not be up.
It frankly has gotten out of hand in my opinion. A 45 minute flight is not that long to hold it. Is it worth risking, getting yourself hurt? I have even seen parents sending their kids down the aisle, barely able to walk.
Is this something that just happens on Southwest? I have flown on AirTran, American and Virgin Atlantic lately and did not see a single person get up ( not to mention leaving trash behind, thats a seperate story). Do people think that there $49 ticket, means they can do whatever they want on the plane?
Ok, I am done griping now! [G]
Safe Flying!!!!!
 

lstwhknight

Member
Oct 25, 2002
43
0
www.usaviation.com
actually I think it is better for the passenagers to lose it in the lavs than on the folks next to them and the aircraft(i know i wouldn''t like having someone get sick on me).all that bouncing around in the air also may make you have to make a lav call,when sitting in a stationary plane at the gate doesnt affect you.would you rather get out the hazmat kit and clean up after a sick passenager that stayed in his/her seat(with all the hiv,aids,sars out there I prefer not to)you should be assisting them not dogging them because they can''t hold it in or down.
i think f/a''s make a big deal out of nothing,i have been flying since i was 5,i am now 49.yeah it may get a little unstable walking down the aisle.once in all those years have i ever seen anyone go airborne,and it was the f/a.she smiled and told me "you didnt see anything"as she landed in an embarassing position.i have been on several test flights as the pilot puts the plane through it paces far worst than any storm(we where not seated as we had to do a visual on fuel dumping etc)I still didnt get airborne in the cabin.sooooo in ending I think you need to work on your people skills,put yourself in thier shoes and look at it from all angles before you judge.what one sees isnt always what is.
 

CD

Member
Aug 24, 2002
46
0
lstwhknight...


I think that perhaps you missed the point of the original message. When the safety belt sign is illuminated AND passengers have been instructed to remain seated due to turbulence, it is for the passengers own safety and not because the flight attendant is "making a big deal out of nothing".


Although you may have "44 years" of personal inflight experience, it is not representative of the real world of commerical aviation. If you review the statistics on the NTSB website, you will find that there have been over a thousand instances of injuries resulting from turbulence and passengers and crew members not being restrained. Some of those instances resulted in the death of the passengers from their injuries.


NTSB Aviation Accident Database Query
[url="http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp#query_start"]http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp#query_start[/URL]


As both of you correctly pointed out, there are instances where the call of nature or a medical condition may encourage a passenger to disregard their own personal safety and head to the lav. However, what all safety professionals should be concerned with are those others who simply do not realize the danger that they are placing themselves and others in.
These individuals need to be made aware of the danger and informed about the risks that they are taking when it is turbulent.


CASA Preparing for a flight - Turbulence
[url="http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/trip/turbulen.htm"]http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/trip/turbulen.htm[/URL]


FAA / NASA Tests To Provide Air Turbulence Preparation Benchmarks
[url="http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2002/02-53.html"]http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewsRele...2002/02-53.html[/URL]


Turbulence In Air Travel
[url="http://www.ttd.org/Resolutions/Mar1998/no.8.htm"]http://www.ttd.org/Resolutions/Mar1998/no.8.htm[/URL]


CNN: A Primer On Air Turbulence
[url="http://cgi.cnn.com/US/9712/29/turbulence.explainer/"]http://cgi.cnn.com/US/9712/29/turbulence.explainer/[/URL]
 

SWAFA30

Advanced
May 13, 2003
232
0
ICUNCMO,

I also fly for SWA and I feel your pain. Over, the years I have become less and less tactful in my PAs, I used to say "It''s best for you to keep your seat", Now, I say "Don''t get up, and if you do get up, I''m sending you back to your seat." If someone feels airsick, that''s what the airsick bags are for.

Anyone who doubts the damage turbulence can do should check out the number of OJIs flight attendants suffer on a daily basis.

And for those who think we should just "work on our people skills", I only have one question, "Are you going to pay my $10,000 fine when the FAA cites ME for letting people move around in the cabin when the seatbelt sign is on?"

I''m sure other airlines'' flight attendants are able to do a better job of keeping their folks seated, and just generally keeping the passengers in line. The only downside to our "relaxed" atmosphere in the cabin, is that our passengers don''t always take us seriously. It''s tough to see someone as an authority figure when they''re wearing shorts and tennis shoes and singing "The Barney Song"
 

tbags

Member
May 13, 2003
32
0
SWAFA30, ICUNMCO and All,
I am a SWA F/A as well. I could not agree more.What is worse, peeing your pants, puking at your seat or breaking your neck! I hit the ceiling yrs. back and sprained my neck and broke 2 ribs. My classmate and former roomate broke her back!!!
I think there are many reasons why PAX ignore the S/B sign. Many pilots simply rarely turn it off if ever. Also, some cities (MCI), don''t have restrooms inside security. Open seating makes our PAX line up waaay before and not want to lose their spot. Other PAX spend their time in the bar and don''t have time to use the restroom enough or at all.
I have been flying for a while and have all the same feelings re: authority, common sense, etc. I don''t see any PAX behavior changing. All we can do is tell them the S/B sign is on and they shouldn''t be up (then hope they don''t get hurt and we have to give them First Aid)!
I agree that our casual atmosphere fuels the problem. When I nonreve on other carriers I don''t see as big of a problem.
In addition, most PAX have no idea of the different kinds and causes of turbulence, be it summer desert "thermals" or up to "Severe" due to Tstorms.
All I can suggest is watch your own ass, warn the PAX via PA and in person while they bounce around next to you and try not to sweat it. I don''t see anything changing with their behavior.

Safe Flying to all,
Chris PHX
 

tbags

Member
May 13, 2003
32
0
Cathleen, Thanks for the info(pic) in the other group. I have had really smelly B.O. types far too often! Sometimes it is an old passenger that can''t take care of themseleves and don''t even know. Alot of the time they have a note pinned to their shirt saying who they are and where they are going. More often it is an issue of "culture". I won''t mention whom, but they tend to treat female F/A''s like dirt, think I am attracted to my own sex and have alot of facial, body hair! They sometimes wear an after shower drying unit atop their person. Not trying to offend, just stating it as I see it.

Chris
 

Twicebaked

Veteran
May 22, 2003
1,788
18
I can atest that the seatbelt dilema is on every airline. I work for US and it is an enormous problem. What''s worse is when they ring that damn call bell and ask you for a pillow!!! You think it is an emergency and you get there and they what a damn pillow!!! I make them feel really dumb when they do that to me. I ask them( out loud) "Is this pillow worth me breaking my neck during this turbulence?" and then I politely say..."no, I will not get that for you right now."

Pet peeve #2
Way do the dumb passengers wait until you start pushing the carts up the isle to use the restroom. What''s worse is when you are around row 12ish and they are in row 4, they expect you to move backwards so they can get back to their seats....I DON''T THINK SO!!!
 

JS

Veteran
Aug 24, 2002
2,004
1
DFW
Visit site
----------------
On 5/28/2003 2:31:09 AM tbags wrote:

I think there are many reasons why PAX ignore the S/B sign. Many pilots simply rarely turn it off if ever.
----------------​

That is *exactly* the problem. Pilots are so conservative with the seat belt sign that it doesn't mean anything.

Seat belt sign "off" really means that the air is so smooth you can walk down the aisle on your heels while juggling oranges. "On" basically means walk normally without juggling oranges, and you might have to hold onto a seatback every now and then.

If pilots would start turning off the seat belt sign at all times other than five minutes after take-off, ten minutes before landing, and while flying through turbulence (not just slightly bumpy air), then the seat belt sign will mean something.

Seat belt signs are like speed limits -- if you make them unreasonably conservative, no one will obey them, and safety is compromised.
 

stewbear

Member
Jan 28, 2003
92
0
----------------
On 2/22/2003 12:42:13 AM ICUNMCO wrote:

OK! I have had ENOUGH!

Seatbelt signs! Why are they there, if nobody ever pays attention to them?

For the past 5 years I have been flying, I have never understood why people never seem to see the seatbelt sign?

EXAMPLE! I was working today, BNA-MDW. We were carrying about 85 passengers and we were completely boarded 10 minutes before we pushed back. The Captain told the passengers in his welcome speech that it would be bumpy on the way to MDW and that the seatbelt sign would probably stay turned on. Did anyone think to go use the bathroom while they had the chance? NO!
So, we get in-flight and the Captain calls back to tell us to stay seated. I was sitting on the rear jumpseat doing my best not to get sick in the turbulence, when this man bounced off the walls and walked into the bathroom. I politely make a PA, asking passengers to stay seated. Did anyone listen? NO! No less than 5 people came back to use the restroom, each one I explain that they should be seated. It got to the point that at one time there were 2 people standing in the back galley holding onto handles to stay steady.
My problem is not with people who have medical problems and cannot hold it. My problem is with people that have sat in the gate area for at least an hour, then sit on the plane at the gate for 30 minutes, waiting till the plane is in the air to use the bathroom. If it''s not safe for me to be up, then they surely should not be up.
It frankly has gotten out of hand in my opinion. A 45 minute flight is not that long to hold it. Is it worth risking, getting yourself hurt? I have even seen parents sending their kids down the aisle, barely able to walk.
Is this something that just happens on Southwest? I have flown on AirTran, American and Virgin Atlantic lately and did not see a single person get up ( not to mention leaving trash behind, thats a seperate story). Do people think that there $49 ticket, means they can do whatever they want on the plane?

Ok, I am done griping now! [G]

Safe Flying!!!!!



----------------​
I do think the "casual" atmosphere that "ya''ll" have pushed doesn''t help. You guys and gals are FINALLY waking up. I see that you are getting tired of doing all the work for nothing and are asking for a raise. Get rid of those shorts and the cheerleader sweaters and you might be respected. If you look like you aren''t serious about your job why would you expect anyone else to.
 

SWAFA30

Advanced
May 13, 2003
232
0
Not sure where the disdain for SWA is coming from. Maybe the last few lines of that post were not meant to come off as snide and condescending. At any rate, don''t feel sorry for us. We''re doing just fine.

The relaxed culture that we have here at SWA may not be for everyone but make no mistake, it works. 31 years of consecutive profitablity speaks for itself. Having to remind passengers to keep their seats when the seatbelt sign is on, is a small price to pay for working in comfort.
 

stewbear

Member
Jan 28, 2003
92
0
----------------
On 6/5/2003 6:07:45 PM SWAFA30 wrote:




Not sure where the disdain for SWA is coming from. Maybe the last few lines of that post were not meant to come off as snide and condescending. At any rate, don''t feel sorry for us. We''re doing just fine.

The relaxed culture that we have here at SWA may not be for everyone but make no mistake, it works. 31 years of consecutive profitablity speaks for itself. Having to remind passengers to keep their seats when the seatbelt sign is on, is a small price to pay for working in comfort.










----------------​
Hey, if you want to work for peanuts and look like a housemother of a sorority house that''s AOK with me.Would you give respect to any working person who considers themselves professionals of responsibility the same way if they were wearing your casual wear?.From all the comments about the "stink" on board it sounds like "y''all" are looking for an upgrade in pax too. So, yea people do notice things..including you.
 

tbags

Member
May 13, 2003
32
0
I will be honest, I have not voted for our last 3 contracts. I was able to vote for or against the last 2. I have been a F/A for SWA for 13 yrs. I want a raise, but my retirement is based on my Company''s performance. Do I think it is waaay past time? YESSS!!! I still feel I have a strong gripe as to my contract. Yet, my Airline is still paying all of it''s Bills! Being Banckrupt does not to seem the best option.
Chris
 
Aug 22, 2002
83
0
www.usaviation.com
That is a gripe of mine also. I had a lady in my class that had a "large" scar on her face. It was from a turbulance injury. For anyone to make light of this, no matter how many years of flying, is foolish.

It is also FAA mandated. I do not make enough money to pay fAA fines for people that do not comply with FAA regs. I just make sure they are told, and loud enough that there are witnesses. I am not about to get into a wrestling match.

We also have trashed airplanes after certain routes, or fares!

My biggest gripe is the blocked aisle. One flight a man had a case completely blocking his aisle, had his feet on it, he was in an aisle seat with 2 children inside. I was doing the check, and asked him to put the case all the way under the seat in front of him. He just sat there with his arms crossed over his chest.

I finished my check and returned, asking him again to put the case under. He mumbled it would not fit. I said, then it needs to go into an overhead bin. He says, they are all full. I explained it would have to be checked. Now he is in full fledged pout and still not moving.

I started talking very loud, and explained the reason for the ruling from FAA. If we had an emergency and the cabin was full of smoke your children could be left behind having tripped over this bag. He said, they are not my children!!

The pax''s in the row in front had turned around and was listening and watching, the lady says, "they are MY children" get the bag moved!!

People don''t like being told what to do, and I can understand that, but all these rules were developed from serious injury having ALREADY happened and FAA and the airline industry learning from it. Mostly from Flight attendants fighting for it.

I hope no one sees an injury from a bag out of place or turbulance. The reason will be flight attendants will do their best to keep pax''s in compliance.
gigi