Happy SAPping!

FlightChic

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Feb 18, 2007
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Check out this CBS! It's like they are throwing it in our faces like "Ha! Ha! We can get Christmas off and you can't!

Subject: Protected Holiday SAPPING

Protected Holiday SAPPING - How Does It Work
By Carol Austin - AFA Scheduling Chairperson and
Tim Gunsteens - Manager, InFlight Technical Services

Sally was awarded a block worth 78+30 which was comprised of 3 day
trips on the 4th, 11th, 18th, 25th, and the 31st. In this example, each 3
day trip is worth 18+00 and the trip leading out has a credit of 6+30. When
she sat down to SAP, her main goal was to be off on Christmas Day.
The following will show you how she achieved her goal via SAP even
though Christmas Day was a protected holiday.

In her first bid, she tried to "Drop" Christmas Day outright (Section
9.C.3.e.) but understood that due to the requirement that a minimum

PF 1=Help 3=Exit 4=Return 7=Query 5=Action 11=Backward 10=Forward EMCC0000


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Special Interest News Item
__________________________________________________________ Posted: Nov 02 07 Fri

of 15% trips remaining in open time (O/T), she was probably not going
to be awarded that bid (in her base SAP started with 30% O/T). Sally read
in a published SAP document that December 24th and December 25th
are treated as one holiday for the purposes of a touch in SAP, and that
touching one was like touching the other. Knowing that fact, she bid her
unit in the following way:

DATE TRIIP DROP EXPAND ADD AWARDED
Dec 25.18091 X 1. E. none
2. E. 4day/21 12345
3. E. 3day/22
4. E. 2day/23
5. E. 1day/24

By swapping a trip that originated on December 25th for a trip that
terminated on December 24th Sally did not increase the percentage of
holiday open time. If one of the trips in her ADD columns was available
at her seniority it would be awarded as long as it was legal. Additionally,

PF 1=Help 3=Exit 4=Return 7=Query 5=Action 11=Backward 10=Forward EMCC0000


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Special Interest News Item
__________________________________________________________ Posted: Nov 02 07 Fri

Sally was trying to use SAP to better her position for future use of the bid
sheet (AIL). By using this technique she may be able to trip improve off her
SAP awarded trip and be off Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Sally
rejoices! Please note: Sally did not have to bid by way of the expanded bid
method above. She could have bid individual trip pairings but it was easier
for her to bid using the expansion feature.

Note: A holiday touch is a holiday touch EXCEPT for the following:
You would not be able to swap two ODAN trips (say 23rd & 24th) for one
trip that touches the holiday. Same would apply to Red Eyes that return
to base in the A.M.(say 25th ) and originate another red eye that night
(say 25th). Further, if the flight attendant had day trips on the 24th and
the system would not allow him/her to drop the two day trips (24th and 25th)
in exchange for one trip that touches the holiday(s).

Why? Because such activity increases the O/T pool for the affected
Holiday(s). In other words, two originating trips (24th & 25th) would be
going back into O/T and only one originating trip going out.

PF 1=Help 3=Exit 4=Return 7=Query 5=Action 11=Backward 10=Forward EMCC0000


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Special Interest News Item
__________________________________________________________ Posted: Nov 02 07 Fri


Happy SAPping!
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I know I will be flamed for saying this but if you are a reserve please don't pick up any ETB trips for December. I know we all have bills to pay and we all really need that money for the holidays but BHs will be trying to drop their trips so they can have Christmas off. We never get that luxury unless we are sick. You all know we are going to be sitting around all of December and then right before Christmas we will start flying. So let's for one month boycott ETB and let those block holders fly the trips that they can't drop on the ETB. They have several options to get rid of trips and pick up new ones but let's make it harder for them. Not all of them will be able to SAP or do whatever else it is that they do to trip improve or get certain days off. LOL!
 

EMBFA

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Mar 1, 2006
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F*ck Sally lol

I generally don't do ETB. I won't work on an off day unless it's something fun with a friend. No one should have to, I hate that people have accepted it as the only way to make money. I'm def not picking up any in December, I've been hearing a lot of talk about picking a month to do this, it seems like people are really commiting to December. Should be interesting!
 

Zarah

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Oct 22, 2004
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I do not think they are throwing it our faces, there are always a lot of questions around the holidays and touching this, dropping that, protected whatever. If I were a block holder I would care about such things. As it is, I have a very long time until I - if ever - have to worry about that nonsense.

At this time, I work a second job to avoid having to work ETB trips to get by.
 
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FlightChic

FlightChic

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Feb 18, 2007
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F*ck Sally lol

I generally don't do ETB. I won't work on an off day unless it's something fun with a friend. No one should have to, I hate that people have accepted it as the only way to make money. I'm def not picking up any in December, I've been hearing a lot of talk about picking a month to do this, it seems like people are really commiting to December. Should be interesting!

It is cool if you are flying with a friend or if you want to occasionally pick up a transatlantic trip or a domestic trip with a nice long layover somewhere cool. However, I don't think reserves should have to rely on it. To tell you the truth, we should all boycott it all together and refuse to fly ETB because the more we fly them, the more we send the message to the company that it is OK for us to sit around and NOT make guarantee and then pick up trips on our off days just so we can pay bills. Let's see, instead of doing ETB, reserves could make a lot more money by:

1. Bartending
2. Working a part time job elsewhere
3. Starting/Working at your own business
4. Sales

Even if I did do ETB trips, I wouldn't do it in December.

At this time, I work a second job to avoid having to work ETB trips to get by.

Good for you Zarah! It is sad that we have to work other jobs but I am glad you are working somewhere else besides relying on ETB. I bet you make more money at your second job than if you did ETBs.
 

Zarah

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Oct 22, 2004
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The more I fly the bigger my airline check is and smaller my part-time job check is. Less I fly the bigger my part-time check is and the smaller the airline check is. Overall, my monthly take home income is more balanced year round instead of feast or famine if I only flew.

I am lucky that my part-time job is flexible at this time. It may not always be that way, but for now it works for me and I do not have to scramble to find ETB trips that fit my schedule.
 

SKY HIGH

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May 22, 2004
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Even if I did do ETB trips, I wouldn't do it in December.

sky high states: F/A's get smart. They work the system. You just said, you'll probably be sitting most of the month of Dec. No problem. You have GUARANTEE. What is it? 73 hours.
Fly two ETB trips that are not counted as company time and BAM: 100 HOURS for the month. You didnt work "to" guarantee, picked up some extra time and BANKED SOME BUCKS. How many days did that cost you? Even ONE ETB trip can bring you up to 90 HOURS in addition to all that sitting around. I see the ETB benefitting everyone!

only stating opinions
 
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FlightChic

FlightChic

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Feb 18, 2007
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It is so hard to do ETBs now since we can't be on duty for more than 6 days, especially when you are off for two or three days at a time. Even if I wanted to do it, it would be difficult. For example, I am on duty for six days and off for three. So, I won't be able to work an ETB until day 2 of my off days. I won't be able to work on day three because I am back on for 6 more days. I have tried to pick up transatlatic trips or other trips that I would be legal for when I was on for fewer days but I didn't get them. I guess if I spent as much time on the ETB as I did here I could eventually pick something up. LOL! It isn't that easy to fit trips in our schedules when we aren't allowed to work over 6 days in a row. So for many of us it is just easier to work a part time job because there aren't any restrictions. Combine that with commuting and it just doesn't work for me, but I am glad it works for others who live in base. I just don't think we should have to work on our days off just to make ends meet, and the more people keep doing it, the more the company will think it is OK to let us just sit around. I do think we should have a choice as to whether we want to work/be on duty for over six days though so those who do wish to pick up ETB trips would have an easier time.
 

iwantout

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Nov 16, 2005
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Why is this information coming out after SAP closed? Shouldn''t it have come out before SAP closed so f/a's could have used this information to SAP? What good does it do after? Well I guess we can thank C.A. for this. Perhaps she did not have access to a computer as she sat in SAN collecting 100 hour of flight pay lost while the rest of have to actually work for a living. Thanks CA for having the best interest of us reserves in mind as you negoitate a contract. I know that you are looking out for us and not for your friends at your seniority. NOT!
 

USstew23

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Why is this information coming out after SAP closed? Shouldn''t it have come out before SAP closed so f/a's could have used this information to SAP? What good does it do after? Well I guess we can thank C.A. for this. Perhaps she did not have access to a computer as she sat in SAN collecting 100 hour of flight pay lost while the rest of have to actually work for a living. Thanks CA for having the best interest of us reserves in mind as you negoitate a contract. I know that you are looking out for us and not for your friends at your seniority. NOT!
I'm sure someone will want to smack the sh!t out of me for saying this, but I'd rather be flying on X-mas than sitting in my crashpad or a hotel somewhere all alone missing my family. I get your point though Chic but remember when it comes time to vote on a contract that we as RSV's may actually have some say this time since so many people went back on RSV and will have that fear in them. We need a system like Delta where they only have like 3 or 4 access days per month and EVERYONE holds a block. Something like the top 25% don't have the access days which sounds beautiful to me.
 
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FlightChic

FlightChic

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Feb 18, 2007
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Why is this information coming out after SAP closed? Shouldn''t it have come out before SAP closed so f/a's could have used this information to SAP? What good does it do after? Well I guess we can thank C.A. for this. Perhaps she did not have access to a computer as she sat in SAN collecting 100 hour of flight pay lost while the rest of have to actually work for a living. Thanks CA for having the best interest of us reserves in mind as you negoitate a contract. I know that you are looking out for us and not for your friends at your seniority. NOT!


Oh! Don't even get me started on CA! She hates reserves and she's negotiating on our behalf! Ugh! She was so rude to me too! CA, take a hint! LEAVE! We all know she never will though.
 

USstew23

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Oh! Don't even get me started on CA! She hates reserves and she's negotiating on our behalf! Ugh! She was so rude to me too! CA, take a hint! LEAVE! We all know she never will though.
Isn't she something like 4,000 years old and was never on RSV or if she was it was back in 1962ish when she started? Just who we need negotiating the RSV section for us!!! Someone mentioned awhile back about getting on the horn to the union in the middle of the night when they get quick called for T/A. Well get her on the speed dial too and let her know you lover her at 1am just prior to departure to FRA. I'm so glad my dues were raised, oh look I just p!ssed down my leg I'm so excited!!! :shock:
 

EMBFA

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Mar 1, 2006
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Dues should be on a ratio to what your union has negotiated your pay as. Those who make $37 an hour should pay $37 a month. Those who make $21 an hour should pay $21 a month.

I really hope no one picks up ETB in December. Has it not occured to anyone that the company is really pulling one over here? Rather than recall the appropriate amount of staffing, you have douchebags working thier off days to keep the company as minimally staffed as possible. F/As are not "smart" in this regard- you think you're getting one over on the company because you get a few hours over guarantee? How about the fact that you're essentially making yourself into two F/As, a full time one, and a part time one? If no one was doing that, maybe they would have to recall more F/As which would improve everyone's quality of life.

The point of a seniority based system is that it moves, there's attrition- leaving from the top, joining from the bottom. Neither action is occuring on this property in substantial ways. We know the story at the top, they either have it too good or planned too poorly to leave. At the bottom, most of our former flying has been outsourced, so any growth we would have enjoyed has been handed to Republic and Mesa. Furthermore, this silly volunteer flight attendant program known as the ETB contributes to this as well, not to mention giving BH F/As way too much flexibility at all of our expense.

I was talking to a F/A about ETB and he said "Well, I would get another job, but why? I'd rather read my magazine on the plane as extra income on my off days." Well, okay, but just realize what you are contributing to. A second job could not only provide more income in a more rewarding way, it can also put a little perspective on your F/A career and just what is going on there. The company has the reserves by the balls with this program and is laughing- the union goes along with it because it benefits the blockholders.

I want the very idea of this completely abolished in the next contract. Some people may be stupid but I'm not. You pay me a livable wage for the 20 days of continuous 24 hours a day duty I give you every month (although that needs to change too, but different topic...)

Off days? Oh HELL, no.
 

USstew23

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Oct 19, 2005
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Dues should be on a ratio to what your union has negotiated your pay as. Those who make $37 an hour should pay $37 a month. Those who make $21 an hour should pay $21 a month.

I really hope no one picks up ETB in December. Has it not occured to anyone that the company is really pulling one over here? Rather than recall the appropriate amount of staffing, you have douchebags working thier off days to keep the company as minimally staffed as possible. F/As are not "smart" in this regard- you think you're getting one over on the company because you get a few hours over guarantee? How about the fact that you're essentially making yourself into two F/As, a full time one, and a part time one?

I want the very idea of this completely abolished in the next contract. Some people may be stupid but I'm not. You pay me a livable wage for the 20 days of continuous 24 hours a day duty I give you every month (although that needs to change too, but different topic...)

Off days? Hell, no.
Don't worry EMB, I for one will not be picking up any ETB for DEC. 1. Because I commute (like most) and value my family life too much. 2. Because of the way our schedules are it is next to impossible to pick up ETB even if I wanted to.
 

N109UW

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Aug 24, 2005
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I'm sure someone will want to smack the sh!t out of me for saying this, but I'd rather be flying on X-mas than sitting in my crashpad or a hotel somewhere all alone missing my family. I get your point though Chic but remember when it comes time to vote on a contract that we as RSV's may actually have some say this time since so many people went back on RSV and will have that fear in them. We need a system like Delta where they only have like 3 or 4 access days per month and EVERYONE holds a block. Something like the top 25% don't have the access days which sounds beautiful to me.
This would never happen. Our beloved union would never do that to a BH, like they did to the rsv's. I suggested a rotating rsv system at the clt union meeting and was laughed at by the union(Flores).
 

EMBFA

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Mar 1, 2006
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Yeah? Keep laughing! The tiny world of Usair is about to get bigger and look a lot more like other airlines with varying levels of seniority (and this time they can vote rather than being locked into a dues paying but non-voting "division" like MDA... what a union). The former HP F/As have a say in all of this too.

And soon enough we'll be negotiating a merged contract with someone else, where we are outnumbered six to one, most possible candidates already have rotating reserve. They can stop being ignorant and self-serving now or wait to get hit in the face when they become insignificant.

Just saying!