Help a furloughed pilot decide

[Swaayze]

Can't really keep this short in order to provide adequate background, but I'll do my best...

I am furloughed USAir and recalls are getting reasonably close to me. I expect an opportunity to return there on a 737/Airbus within a year or so, or to the E190 in a few months (I will definitely bypass that initially due to low pay $46/hr). I am an Eagle EMB FO just barely able to hold a line. I came back to Eagle 10/04 (I was here 94-99) after bouncing around post 9/11 to justify moving my family back to DFW and because Eagle is a good regional job, relatively speaking. But...things here seem very cloudy, at best I'd expect a Saab upgrade in another 2-3 years IF we can recruit enough newhires to avoid AMR putting our flying out for bid by others. I don't need a ton of money but I certainly am struggling on FO pay and even SF3 CA pay would barely allow saving anything for retirement. I have small kids (twins) in Kindergarten and cherish my time home, so commuting (to reserve especially) would really be a bummer (we won't be moving anytime soon due to wife's family in the immediate area).

I have less than 1000 turbine PIC but plenty of TT. I can go to Republic as an E170/175 Captain under the Jets4Jobs program (basically like an AA flowback but at year 1 longevity and seniority). If I do that it would be strictly to book 1300 turbine PIC before I go back to USAir, in case history re-repeats itself and I wind up on the street for a 3rd time (#2 omitted for brevity). That would give me the option of the A list jobs as well as SWA and AA in the DFW area in the future. The pay difference is only about $500/mo over the course of 1 year there because: I'd lose a month's pay, have 1 month of COBRA expenses, and by the time I fly 85-90 here vs. 75 there and pay crashpad expenses it just isn't as much more as it seems ($57 or 63/hr there E170 or 175). Hardly worth it monetarily for the hassles IMO.

So, should I bother going there? Should I go to USAir straight from Eagle? Should I just stay at Eagle and call it a career? Truth is I'm so dang gunshy of making another wrong decision I don't know what the heck to do! Does Eagle have a reasonable future for me anytime soon? FWIW $60k is about the livable wage point for us, assuming wife at home for the kids, which I prefer. I couldn't really care less about flying a 737 vs. an EMJ. Truthfully I don't really wanna go commute to reserve at RPA, or LCC for that matter, and then get stuck junior at LCC when age 65 takes effect. I'm almost 40 and I have a hard time envisioning a 25 year commuting career, but financially I'm just not sure I can stay here and have a reasonable retirement stash. Plus, I'm a little tired of trying to salvage what seems to be a toasted career. Perhaps I need to just enjoy not commuting and wait it out to upgrade here?

Your honest thoughts and insights are appreciated. Flaming is not.


Thanks,
Swaayze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Obviously, I can't tell you which would be best - too many variables. But things to think about, which you already appear to have a pretty good grasp on:

Pending changes in a combined contract, you'll spend 3/4 of every month away from home with US. On reserve for some time, so while take-home pay may be higher in the right seat of a 737/A320, there's the expense of having a commuter pad and sitting on reserve.

If it were me making the decision (and that's not to say it would be the right decision for you), I'd sit tight for a while. See what the combined contract looks like. See what, if any, aircraft orders get announced. See what the combined seniority list looks like. As long as you're not jeopardizing your recall rights.

Jim

 

[U 737 PILOT]

Can't really keep this short in order to provide adequate background, but I'll do my best...

I am furloughed USAir and recalls are getting reasonably close to me. I expect an opportunity to return there on a 737/Airbus within a year or so, or to the E190 in a few months (I will definitely bypass that initially due to low pay $46/hr). I am an Eagle EMB FO just barely able to hold a line. I came back to Eagle 10/04 (I was here 94-99) after bouncing around post 9/11 to justify moving my family back to DFW and because Eagle is a good regional job, relatively speaking. But...things here seem very cloudy, at best I'd expect a Saab upgrade in another 2-3 years IF we can recruit enough newhires to avoid AMR putting our flying out for bid by others. I don't need a ton of money but I certainly am struggling on FO pay and even SF3 CA pay would barely allow saving anything for retirement. I have small kids (twins) in Kindergarten and cherish my time home, so commuting (to reserve especially) would really be a bummer (we won't be moving anytime soon due to wife's family in the immediate area).

I have less than 1000 turbine PIC but plenty of TT. I can go to Republic as an E170/175 Captain under the Jets4Jobs program (basically like an AA flowback but at year 1 longevity and seniority). If I do that it would be strictly to book 1300 turbine PIC before I go back to USAir, in case history re-repeats itself and I wind up on the street for a 3rd time (#2 omitted for brevity). That would give me the option of the A list jobs as well as SWA and AA in the DFW area in the future. The pay difference is only about $500/mo over the course of 1 year there because: I'd lose a month's pay, have 1 month of COBRA expenses, and by the time I fly 85-90 here vs. 75 there and pay crashpad expenses it just isn't as much more as it seems ($57 or 63/hr there E170 or 175). Hardly worth it monetarily for the hassles IMO.

So, should I bother going there? Should I go to USAir straight from Eagle? Should I just stay at Eagle and call it a career? Truth is I'm so dang gunshy of making another wrong decision I don't know what the heck to do! Does Eagle have a reasonable future for me anytime soon? FWIW $60k is about the livable wage point for us, assuming wife at home for the kids, which I prefer. I couldn't really care less about flying a 737 vs. an EMJ. Truthfully I don't really wanna go commute to reserve at RPA, or LCC for that matter, and then get stuck junior at LCC when age 65 takes effect. I'm almost 40 and I have a hard time envisioning a 25 year commuting career, but financially I'm just not sure I can stay here and have a reasonable retirement stash. Plus, I'm a little tired of trying to salvage what seems to be a toasted career. Perhaps I need to just enjoy not commuting and wait it out to upgrade here?

Your honest thoughts and insights are appreciated. Flaming is not.
Thanks,
Swaayze

I'm in the same boat. I'm taking the QOL over the higher pay and the hassle of commuting and crashpads and reserve life. Delay as long as you can, then re-evaluate when they get to you with the last chance offer. As far as Republic, not sure what to tell you on that one. I turned down the offer when i found out there was no pay for training, double up in hotel rooms, and a training contract to sign.

 

[algflyr]

Im currently at Republic under J4J. They are short of CA's and you can easily get close to 100 hrs. per month. Of course that takes you away from your family even more...

When you get the recall to AAA, when you can hold a group 2 A/C, Republic will hold you but you will make Group 2 pay at your appropriate seniority at AAA. That will allow you to get the PIC time and better pay than the 57.00 per hour. Other considerations to think about being at Republic: The first 30 days you will only make $125/week in training. After that you get 75 hr. guarantee at CA pay rate. Insurance is reasonable but doesnt start until 30 days on property.

At your seniority on the APL, you should be able to hold a block in IND or DCA. PIT would most likely be reserve. What is your AAA seniority # (Approx) and I'll tell you if you can hold a block and where. If you have any questions about Republic, I'll be happy to try and answer them...

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

First, count your blessings. You are still flying -- hopefully, following your dream. You have a home and 2 beautiful children, and I'm assuming, a lovely wife.

Take a deep breath -- what do you really want? Take another deep breath and really think about it.

I'm no psychiatrist (probably can't even spell it right), but it sounds to me like you want SECURITY, above all else.

Let's face it. NO airline job is secure -- no pilot's job, no management job, none of it. But you can control some of the risks, and then once you've done that, LIVE with the choice you make.

So, based on what you've told us, I would make the most of a life at Eagle in Dallas. What is the price of disrupting the life you have now? You CAN find ways to save for retirement -- many, many, many people make a lot less money than you -- many people working for this very airline, and they are saving. But you have to make choices, and sometimes, they may not be popular choices. Keep the house you have -- do not upgrade. You just increase your payment and have more space and need to buy more furniture (that you won't use) to fill up all that space. Keep your cars at least 7 years. Longer if you can. If your friends judge you by the kind and year of car you drive -- get new friends. Those kinds of choices. Learn when "enough" is "enough" -- such as "my house is big enough", "my car is good enough " and for people like me, "I have enough shoes."

Can you join a 401K or other automatic retirement plan? Do it. Do it this weekend. Start with 5% of your pay. Once you start, you will get by without the extra cash and you won't miss it. Now, everytime you get a pay increase, increase your 401K saving by that same percentage. And each year on January 1, increase it by another 1%. If you REALLY want to save for retirement (which = security) -- this IS what you have to do if you're approaching 40 and havent' started... Also, do not save for the kids college education. They have other means available to them to go to college (scholarships, grants, loans, etc) -- when you retire, you don't.

So, whatever choice you make, be HAPPY with the choice you make. Do what you need to do to stay HAPPY with the wonderful LIFE you DO have -- stop comparing your current life to all the other possibilities and lives out there -- you HAVE the life you CHOOSE, now MAKE it WORK for YOU and your FAMILY. Once you make a decision and focus your energy on the life you have, it will work out for you.

"Bloom where you are planted", wherever that ends up being, and you'll do swell, Swaayze.

 

[2clippedwings]

I think that is very good advice.
A lot of us furloughees took what we thought would be interim employment and now are forced to deal with rebuilding our lives with new parameters.

Personally, after multiple furloughs, I believe quality of life is most important. You can't live your life forever with the question of what MIGHT be. It takes a big person to be able to sacrifice some things for the long term benefit to their family.

I'd also live below your means to give you a financial cushion and offers security. Breath of Fresh gave excellent advice about a retirement savings plan.

I'd keep the option of accepting recall so that when you must choose you'll have carefully weighed out what your future at USAirways might look like as opposed to your QOL at Eagle.

Of course, only you can make the decision right for you and your family but know that you are not alone in your situation!

 

[Furloughedagain]

I think the last two folks have given you wonderful advice. Nothing quite like being home to watch the kid grow up.

Do I still spend far too much time looking at USAir and wondering, "what if?". You bet I do. Maybe it's a little shiny-jet syndrome. But i'd love to fly an Airbus or a Boeing again.

If I were a single man, maybe i'd give in and go back. Heck, if I were single maybe Emirates or Cathay Pacific or even Kalitta would look good. But i'm not single, and doing what is right for the family is far more important than accepting a recall simply to fly a bigger airplane with the hope of someday getting a bigger paycheck.

I think you're doing the right thing. Weighing your option and, since aviation is indeed unstable, hanging onto USAir as a plan B for as long as possible. Worst case scenario you let me talk you into coming to work here!

Now go bid an XNA overnight so we can have this discussion over a beer! Good luck with your decision.

-Mike

 

[chevyman]

I would try to envision the worst thing that could happen to me and then try to work from there to find the best path. There are no guarrantes in life. As you know it can all go to hell in a hand basket very quick. You are a family man so there are special circumstances. You will know if you have chosen the right path if you can sleep well at night after you have made your decision. Good luck and there is an old Chinese proverb that goes something like this,

Every man has a destiny and it doesn't matter what you do,so rest and relax and enjoy the day.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Do not go back to US Air (under the current contract) unless you are willing to relocate and live in one of the bases.

Remember 1000 PIC is the minimum . Take a look at one of the aviation interview sites and you'll see 2000 -3000 is needed to be competitive (by the time you accrue this you'll most likely have had to give up an AAA number based upon the current recall situation). Oh yea, you need 2 to 7 recommendations as well just to interview. Then again, you may not even get the job.

The hot places today were backwaters 10 years ago when the big (bankrupt) 3 were THE place to be. 10 years before them it was Pan Am, Eastern and TWA getting the cream of the crop. Soon, the flavor of the month will be moving on.

Not just advice, I'm in the same boat as you.

Wish you the best in the future.

 

[Mike]

I think the last two folks have given you wonderful advice. Nothing quite like being home to watch the kid grow up.

Do I still spend far too much time looking at USAir and wondering, "what if?". You bet I do. Maybe it's a little shiny-jet syndrome. But i'd love to fly an Airbus or a Boeing again.

If I were a single man, maybe i'd give in and go back. Heck, if I were single maybe Emirates or Cathay Pacific or even Kalitta would look good. But i'm not single, and doing what is right for the family is far more important than accepting a recall simply to fly a bigger airplane with the hope of someday getting a bigger paycheck.

I think you're doing the right thing. Weighing your option and, since aviation is indeed unstable, hanging onto USAir as a plan B for as long as possible. Worst case scenario you let me talk you into coming to work here!

Now go bid an XNA overnight so we can have this discussion over a beer! Good luck with your decision.

-Mike

Trust me on this...There is no promised land in aviation. Former Corporate, USAirways, Mesa J4J, MidAtlantic, Atlas, now back at USAirways.

 

[Furloughedagain]

Trust me on this...There is no promised land in aviation. Former Corporate, USAirways, Mesa J4J, MidAtlantic, Atlas, now back at USAirways.

Amen to that.

Former Freightdog (C402), Chautauqua, AirTran, Chautauqua(x2), USAirways, Boston-Maine, PSA, Comair, Corporate (Fortune 500), still reading USAirways message boards.

I feel like George Costanza. Maybe if I just start doing the opposite of my instinct i'll be better off.

 

[Swaayze]

Yes, opposite. Of course!

Thank you all for your input and insights. I hope this thread has helped others besides myself who may be in similar situations. It helps just to see others point out some things I may've already thought of and see how they're viewed in the grand scheme of things. I appreciate the financial lessons as well - but I'm fairly well versed in personal finance and believe me I'm doing what I can. Tens of thousands have been sacrificed to have the wife home with our kids during their preschool years and if we were not debt free (house notwithstanding) and living modestly (our "nice car" the minivan is 10 years old!) we'd never make it. Eagle is a decent job but truthfully I can make more coming back to U in my first year back than I will make after another 5 years here as a Captain. I suspect most other aspects of the job are a wash, so the real question is, essentially, do I accept nearly $2000/mo to commute? Seems silly not to when viewed that way, but I am just lazy I guess.

Thanks again, all your input is considered and appreciated!

 

[luvn737s]

There should be stable 60K jobs in DFW area that aren't involved in the topsy-turvy world of aviation. Is remaining in flying the number one criteria?

 

[Swaayze]

There should be stable 60K jobs in DFW area that aren't involved in the topsy-turvy world of aviation. Is remaining in flying the number one criteria?

At this point I'm pretty much staying in aviation. Apparently I have dain bramage. Plus I'm not real good at ferreting out opportunities I guess, 'cause other than being a sim instructor I haven't seen much evidence of those jobs for which I'd qualify.

 

[Swaayze]

Rumor has it that I'd be slotted in at RPA based on my APL seniority. Is this correct? I was never MDA if that makes a difference. If this is accurate then I suspect that would make a huge difference in QOL and may make this doable for me. I was leaning heavily towards not going there until this info was passed to me by a generous APLer.

Thanks