Here We Go Again

[tadjr]

I am over it. If I hear one more PHL customer tell me this because they didnt like the answer they got to their question, I'm going to have to walk away before I do something drastic. :rant:

Last night the agent next to me got one. The dad wasnt even flying, but had to chime in with the "WN threat" because he didnt think his daughter should have to pay a standby fee. WN doesnt do that. No, actually your daughter would be paying the difference in the fare she paid and the fare today if she wanted to fly standby on WN. Next.
Today, two US2s flying to PHL via PIT didnt get their upgrades they had listed for. (IT was an 8 seat FC 757 and it was booked full with 5 US1s on standby). She wanted her seats changed to an exit. It was gone, but there were aisles across, no good. I managed to get them exit together on the connection. When she asked again about the upgrade and I told her it was booked full and there were already 4 US1 on the standby list, you guessed it, I cant wait for WN to come to PHL to .....
and this is supposed to help you get the upgrade how? I mentioned to her that on WN she wouldnt have the choice to be getting her exit seats in advance and of course then it was, at least I wouldnt be paying what I am on you.
Any guesses on the cost of her rt? With the chance of being upgraded? With checkin at the preferred line? With her seat assignments in hand as she left the counter?


$187 round trip INCLUDING all taxes! So about $80 each way in fare. Thank goodness it isnt like this all the time, and I know some of you guys do get screwed royally on WALKUP fares, but give me a break already.

Rant off.

 

[Dea Certe]

tadjr,

I know it's hard, but don't take it to heart. We all hear some pretty crazy things all day long and I think all customers are a little more irritable these days with having the TSA dig through their things, take off their shoes, make them open up the laptops and the whole mess that flying is today. Plus, many of our own FF's are worried we'll go Chapter 7 and they'll lose all their miles and status. I doubt they even realize how awful it sounds to you.

Best thing you can do is to smile, let them know you're sorry you can't accommodate them and wish them a better day tomorrow. And then go kick the trash can in the employee lounge!

I've been told US is going out of business because we don't have Dr. Pepper, because our liquor selection is lousy, because we don't have Milanos any more....you know, you've heard it all!

That's one reason I've been enjoying that Airline Show on A and E, even Southwest gets its share of strange and nasty people. Also, maybe if people get a chance to see how it looks and sounds on the other side of the counter, they might have a little more empathy.

I think the Customer Service Agents have the roughest jobs in the industry. I couldn't possibly walk a mile in your shoes for one day. I wish management could appreciate all that you guys and gals do, above and beyond the call of duty every day. My hat is off to you!

Keep smiling and don't lose your sense of humor.

With support and respect to you,

Dea

 

[USFlyer]

To be honest, I run into a lot of passengers and employees who really have no clue what is going on. I fault US Corporate Communications for not effectively dealing with all the negative PR. I'm also tired of hearing Preferred passengers, flight attendants and the like spreading totally false information. For example, last night one F/A said the additional 60 Airbuses were definitely coming -- unless I missed a press release, I haven't read this anywhere. Then she said the additional 60 Airbuses would bring back all furloughed pilots. Umm, I definitely haven't heard this one. Then the Preferred passengers are all excited over WN's entry. I can't wait to see them fighting with the masses to get a seat after they're used to upgrading on US, even with US's reduced F product. Then another said he was pissed US dropped such and such redeye into such and such city. But, then he proceeded to say he would never take that flight anyway for business. Well, maybe that's why it was dropped during the off season (nevermind a red eye exists to another US hub, a flight the F/A said did not exist). Then another US1 said the merger with UA is definitely happening, citing an inside source at US. I was like, "Oh, here we go again."

 

[mweiss]

The real reason I suspect WN will kick your butts in PHL is one I don't think anyone here ever talks about.

Southwest consistently sets people's expectations low, and consistently exceeds them. Most other airlines consistently set people's expectations high, and inconsistently meet them.

The US2 who complains about not getting upgraded, and complains about not getting the exit row? WN never pretends to make those options. As a result, the customers don't expect it. So they're not surprised when they don't get it.

Look, I'm not here to say I think it'll be great to see your butts get kicked in yet another hub. In fact, I'll be sad to see it happen. But if you're going to want to prevent it, you've got to make sure you are consistently beating your customers' expectations.

 

[youngblood]

Hey Tadjr,

What's the number one rule for all us customer service reps? Don't TIP. (Take It Personally) If it will make you feel any better, I'll share some of the wonderful sentiments thathave been imparted to me and my co-workers when they didn't like the answer we gave them.

1. I hope you lose your job. (The most famous one of course.)

2. Your airline sucks. (Very creative)

3. You're an idiot and you don't know how to do your job. (And they do?)

4. You're the devil's spawn. (At least they were creative.)

5. You get paid too much for what you do. (Pardon me - I don't get enough for this.)

6. The typical - You @%#$# Go to %#@* (These people are usually our favorites)

7. I hope your mother dies. (That's nice......)

8. I hope you die. (That's even better)

9. My personal favorite .... Do you want all the gory details of how she died too you cold hearted BLEEP.

10. I'm glad planes flew into your buildings.

11. I hope your plane crashes.

12. And the number one pick for the evening is ........ drum roll please.....
I HOPE YOUR KID DIES TONIGHT!!!!!

All true. All tolerated to an extent. It takes a special person to listen to this mess and still service a passenger. My way of coping is finally coming to the understanding that any one who would wish some of the horrible things on a person as these people did are truly miserable. They are unhappy and dwell in a world of hatred that I never care to understand. We are obviously better people for not taking the bait.

As for your preferred passenger, maybe she ought to take a simple math course. She certainly cannot grasp the fact that a plain does not come equipped with a rear end that is infinite along with an infinite number of seats. She was apparently one of the last people to buy a ticket or show up. That's the way life is - you don't always get what you want. You try sometimes. You just might find. You get what you need. (Sorry - didn't mean to go into lyric, but it's true.)

Anyway hang in there. I'll leave you with one last piece of information. The best reply I have come up with to all of the above is -

I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[youngblood]

The real reason I suspect WN will kick your butts in PHL is one I don't think anyone here ever talks about.

Southwest consistently sets people's expectations low, and consistently exceeds them. Most other airlines consistently set people's expectations high, and inconsistently meet them.

The US2 who complains about not getting upgraded, and complains about not getting the exit row? WN never pretends to make those options. As a result, the customers don't expect it. So they're not surprised when they don't get it.

Look, I'm not here to say I think it'll be great to see your butts get kicked in yet another hub. In fact, I'll be sad to see it happen. But if you're going to want to prevent it, you've got to make sure you are consistently beating your customers' expectations.

No one's expectations are met all the time. For some a fare will never be low enough, a seat will never be big enough, it's absurd when a flight sells out, my name is Mother Nature and I create the weather, a flight should never delay regardless of the reason, US will never be as good as WN DL UA AA CO NW and vice versa. For others they should have the option of a preassigned seat, first class should always be part of an aircraft, FF miles should be offered, an oxygen desk should be available, there should be preferred check in and WN will never be as good as US.

So tell me where's the happy medium and exactly how do we meet the expectations of every customer?

 

[SVQLBA]

Reading this, I think it reinforces the importance of setting expectations and delivering on them. The legacy airlines have almost made that upgrade to F an expectation for pax, so when -- shock-- you actually sell out F, people are disappointed there are no upgrades. Similarly, the #1 selling point against SW is normally the assigned seats. But when the assigned seats aren't what you want, the expectations aren't met. With SW, even infrequent fliers know -- turn up early if you want a choice.

Something that is often not talked about --- the legacy carriers have been proud as to how they have squeezed load factors into the 70s. This may be good financially but it has a very big customer experience downside. Bethune once famously said that customers want an empty seat next to them rather than more leg room, but your chances of having an empty seat next to you are close to 0 at 75%+ l.f. Similarly, your chances of an upgrade or you preferred seat plummet and chances of the dreaded center seat go up at high l.f.s. If you look, Southwest is turning a profit at 56% load factors or thereabouts (roughly historical levels), so your chances of getting your preferred aisle, window, empty-space next seat etc etc are actually much better on SW.

svqlba

 

[Art at ISP]

Tad,

First, I am sorry that you and your colleagues have to be in a position to endure these people. I would love to see management come out and work the counters and gates for a day so they could reap what they sewed.

As one who knows you and many of your colleauges, I want to say that you all are the REASON I stay, and about now, you guys are the ONLY reason. You and your colleagues are without a doubt the best the industry has to offer, and for each of the fools you just talked about, I am sure that there are 10 of us loyal customers who truly appreciate all you do. Every time I speak with someone from CCY, by the way, I chastise them for the way they treat the employees--and you know for a fact some of my comments have been quoted.

Had I been standing at the counter next to this person I would have offered to take him or her by the hand and walk them over to the Southwest counter! And it would not have been the first time I have done something like that to help one of your colleauges.

All I can say is keep a stiff upper lip, and keep doing what you do---I sincerely hope we are almost through the worst of it, and I look forward to seeing you again on my next trip through TPA (as soon as I can get this darned cast off my arm).

To you and the rest of the fine people at U, my thanks and best wishes. You have my total support.

 

[tadjr]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the response. After 18 years I try not to take anything personally anymore and thats maybe why some airline people appear to give the I dont care attitude anymore. Its easier to just pretend to ignore someone than to listen and respond to their garbage. This day though, I had only been at work for about 5 mins and she was the second person of the day I was trying to help. Really blows a good day to h*ll right off the bat.
Thanks again for all the good points above.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Hey Tadjr,
Keep the faith, glad you waited on him and not me. I would have given him some total Philly 'toode.

Something like, "We'll Pizz on SWA's grave in PHL, here's your boarding pass and thanks for flying with a winner"

Time to start focusing on the REAL enemy Jerry and Dave! They can't take much more, get them motivated and ready to fight, save the $$$$ elsewhere.

This is the ONE time that well know PHILLY 'TOODE, if harnessed will serve you well. You can't harness it if you continually alienate the workforce. You can have cost 20% lower that SWA and if you're not willing to fight and fight some more SWA will whip your assets.

DO NOT continue to lead with a CAN'T DO attitude. Your work force is experienced! Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill anyday. Remember it's not which dog that is in the fight, It's the FIGHT IN THE DOG!

Someone needs to remind SWA that if you ain't the lead dog the view NEVER changes. When they come to PHL they will not be the lead dog. Let's keep it that way.

BAGDAD BOB LIVES!

 

[a320av8r]

Don't forget, on WN they can't standby for FC, its all no class.
Despite all we've been through, I still would put a U person up against anybody else .
"When you are going through hell- keep going."- Sir Winston Churchill

 

[KCFlyer]

Don't forget, on WN they can't standby for FC, its all no class.
Despite all we've been through, I still would put a U person up against anybody else .
"When you are going through hell- keep going."- Sir Winston Churchill

One thing you need to bear in mind is that in the aircraft type in your handle, there are 16 seats available for upgrade - the other 126 are in the "no class" section. And what's truly sad is that if there are seats for 16 lucky people up there to "stand by for upgrade" for, it means that the revenue for those seats is lost. Imagine how great it would be if your coach AND FC compartments were value priced, and come flight time, all 16 seats were filled with "paying" passengers.

 

[Colby]

Today, two US2s flying to PHL via PIT didnt get their upgrades they had listed for. (IT was an 8 seat FC 757 and it was booked full with 5 US1s on standby). She wanted her seats changed to an exit. It was gone, but there were aisles across, no good. I managed to get them exit together on the connection. When she asked again about the upgrade and I told her it was booked full and there were already 4 US1 on the standby list, you guessed it, I cant wait for WN to come to PHL to .....
and this is supposed to help you get the upgrade how? I mentioned to her that on WN she wouldnt have the choice to be getting her exit seats in advance and of course then it was, at least I wouldnt be paying what I am on you.
Any guesses on the cost of her rt? With the chance of being upgraded? With checkin at the preferred line? With her seat assignments in hand as she left the counter?


$187 round trip INCLUDING all taxes! So about $80 each way in fare. Thank goodness it isnt like this all the time, and I know some of you guys do get screwed royally on WALKUP fares, but give me a break already.

Rant off.

Don't let idle threats get to you.........What are these people gonna do when they Realize THERE IS NO FIRST CLASS ON WN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I posted on another Thread.... It's all hype over B.S... When the Passengers Don't get their 99.00 Fares on WN because they only Block so many seats for that price range and don't get what they want.... It'll all calm down just like it has in SO MANY OTHER MARKETS... Common Guys...Chill out and Remember all the other Places WN flys out of without Killing the Competition... Hey, Everyone picks who they want to do business with and IM SURE our people may give it a WHIRL but then they'll be BACK !!!! LOL

 

[Piedmont4US]

You see thats the issue a lot of those PHL natives have never flown WN, and I'm sure Dave knows as much as you and I that they will be in for a wake up call when they get here and realize the long cattle call lines, no FC and such.

I still wonder what our surprise will be... we all know they will be waiting in line a lot longer on the runway.. heheh

 

[KCFlyer]

Don't let idle threats get to you.........What are these people gonna do when they Realize THERE IS NO FIRST CLASS ON WN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I posted on another Thread.... It's all hype over B.S... When the Passengers Don't get their 99.00 Fares on WN because they only Block so many seats for that price range and don't get what they want.... It'll all calm down just like it has in SO MANY OTHER MARKETS... Common Guys...Chill out and Remember all the other Places WN flys out of without Killing the Competition... Hey, Everyone picks who they want to do business with and IM SURE our people may give it a WHIRL but then they'll be BACK !!!! LOL

Hmmm...could this be why US is in trouble...first class makes up about 11.5% of the seats in US's fleet. the other 88.5% are flying back in steerage. I doubt that many who are upset that Southwest has sold out of their $99 fares will head on over to U and buy a first class ticket. That means that 88.5% of your passengers go in knowing that they are going to get a coach seat. Sure, some will pay $99 and hope for the upgrade to an empty first class seat - but that presents a bit of a revenue problem...if the fare doesn't make money in coach, how on earth will it make any money in First?

So...knowing that SWA is sold out of $99 fares...and that they don't intend to fly in First....it then comes down to "What is US's fare". What if it's a flight from PHL to LAS and SWA is "out" of $99 fares, then the most they pay above that is $200 for the fully refundable ticket. What will U charge? Will it undercut Southwest's prices? What sort of penalties will they attach to that fare? If a guy had to fly out today, and back on Friday, Southwest would charge a little over $600 round trip for a fully refundable and changeable ticket. Right now, the best I can find on US is $728.70 and THAT fare is non-refundable and subject to a minimum of a $100 change fee. After LUV starts service, will U start $600 fully refundable and changeable tickets?

Yes...you've got first class. But the 11.5% of the folks that make up your entire FC cabin aren't doing enough to give you a profit. So you gotta start looking at the other 88.5%...THOSE are the ones who will be most likely to defect to Southwest.