How many mechanics and related worked at AA in 2001?

[FWAAA]

Came across an article yesterday about the total number of mechanics at UA:

Union: United Outsources Too Much Work

Tuesday March 25, 5:39 pm ET

Union Says United Airlines Exceeds Limit on Outsourcing Aircraft Maintenance Work

CHICAGO (AP) -- A mechanics union said Tuesday that United Airlines has exceeded the amount of money it is allowed to spend outsourcing aircraft maintenance work by nearly a half-billion dollars.

But the Chicago-based airline disputed the conclusions in an audit for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), saying its spending on outsourced work is within the limits of its contract with the union.

According to AMFA, the audit revealed that United in 2006 spent $280 million more on outsourced work than allowed under a union contract after exceeding the maximum amount allowed by $200 million the year before.

"UAL's continued insistence on ignoring their excessive outsourcing damages the already strained relationship with UAL maintenance employees," AMFA Local 9 President Joseph Prisco said in a statement. In the statement, Prisco, whose union represents more than half of United's mechanics, said that since 2001 the number of "mechanics and related staff" has dropped from 15,000 to 5,600.

United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy said the contract allows United to outsource all heavy maintenance and up to 20 percent of other maintenance. She said a previous audit for the union by another group showed the airline is "well within" the limit allowed by the contract.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080325/united_mechanics.html?.v=2

15,000 then and only 5,600 now? Holy. 9,400 mechanics on the street.

AA claims that current number of mechanics and related totals 12,214. Accurate? Anyone have accurate figures for 2001 before the terrorist attacks and furloughs? There were furloughs and there has been constant attrition since then, with some recalls thrown in as well. Has AA lost anywhere near that percentage of mechanics?

Some have posted that the outsourced MROs could never take on all of AA's heavy maintenance. True? They seem to have absorbed all of UA's heavy maintenance. More than 6 billion people live on this planet outside the USA and anyone really think it would be impossible to round up 20k wrenches* and put them to work on AA's planes? Scary.

*Given the lesser skills of the assumed non-A&P outsourced mechanics, could take 20k or more of them to replace several thousand AA AMTs. Much lower wage rates in those foreign countries would permit higher employment numbers.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------But! With the decline of the American Dollar, it's costing "more" for companies to outsource every day!!!! And "insourcing" more attractive to foreign carriers! So maybe, we really are doing something right for a change!

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

Came across an article yesterday about the total number of mechanics at UA:



http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080325/united_mechanics.html?.v=2

15,000 then and only 5,600 now? Holy. 9,400 mechanics on the street.

AA claims that current number of mechanics and related totals 12,214. Accurate? Anyone have accurate figures for 2001 before the terrorist attacks and furloughs? There were furloughs and there has been constant attrition since then, with some recalls thrown in as well. Has AA lost anywhere near that percentage of mechanics?

Some have posted that the outsourced MROs could never take on all of AA's heavy maintenance. True? They seem to have absorbed all of UA's heavy maintenance. More than 6 billion people live on this planet outside the USA and anyone really think it would be impossible to round up 20k wrenches* and put them to work on AA's planes? Scary.

*Given the lesser skills of the assumed non-A&P outsourced mechanics, could take 20k or more of them to replace several thousand AA AMTs. Much lower wage rates in those foreign countries would permit higher employment numbers.

According to company and twu testimony before the NMB in 2004, at that time over 21,800 M&R were either on the clock or on layoff, so 2001 would have been higher due to the large amount of retirees between 2001 and the 2003 concessions. Now the number of AMT's is no where near the companies 12,214 number, as there is only 10,100 on the title 1 seniority list and that includes around 2,000 OSM's, cleaners, etc. The other 2,000 is with our title 2 facility, auto workers. BTW...according to the NMB with the UAL election, 4,000 or so are on the street, the other 5,400 must of retireed or quit.

 

[lpbrian]

IIRC, back in 2001, there was, before the layoffs, and excluding TWA, about just under 11,000 M&R. It's been a while since i've seen an updated list, but think the total now is just under 10,000. The 20,000+ total mentioned earlier is grossly inflated figure. TWA's list had many errors including people being counted twice, dead people, etc. Even the latest figure is not totally accurate. There are people out with injuries, people retired, etc. As was mentioned earlier, M&R includes cleaners, washers, painters and......SRP/OSM's. The actual numbers of Mechanics actually on the payroll, im guessing, would be about 7500-8000.

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

The 20,000+ total mentioned earlier is grossly inflated figure. TWA's list had many errors including people being counted twice, dead people, etc.

It's a grossly inflated figure now, but was perfectly okay for the company to swear by in 2004 as long as it kept the majority who signed cards from ridding themselves from the companies friend, the twu. And the grossly inflated list also included many long retired, dead, never worked for AAers on top of the retired, dead, never worked for TWAers.

The number is 10,100 for title 1 and another 2,000 or so from title 2 and other workgroups, so FWAAA number is close tot he real number. Layoff numbers are still in the thousands, and we should get another overly inflated list with new dead people by the end of the year after the next filing at the NMB. <_<

 

[Boomer]

Came across an article yesterday about the total number of mechanics at UA:



http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080325/united_mechanics.html?.v=2

15,000 then and only 5,600 now? Holy. 9,400 mechanics on the street.

AA claims that current number of mechanics and related totals 12,214. Accurate? Anyone have accurate figures for 2001 before the terrorist attacks and furloughs? There were furloughs and there has been constant attrition since then, with some recalls thrown in as well. Has AA lost anywhere near that percentage of mechanics?

Some have posted that the outsourced MROs could never take on all of AA's heavy maintenance. True? They seem to have absorbed all of UA's heavy maintenance. More than 6 billion people live on this planet outside the USA and anyone really think it would be impossible to round up 20k wrenches* and put them to work on AA's planes? Scary.

*Given the lesser skills of the assumed non-A&P outsourced mechanics, could take 20k or more of them to replace several thousand AA AMTs. Much lower wage rates in those foreign countries would permit higher employment numbers.

FWAA,

I'm going to take the leAAp and state that you are conditioning our contract expectations against future employment numbers.

Bottom line is that we are continuing to reduce costs and incerease revenue in a "difficult" enviroment.

To date, there is no target agreed to by the TWU and AA which has not been met. Have the TWU and AA failed to be agressive enough? If so, should the rank and file be penalized for a failure in vision from those that run the CompAAny?

Recent developments, vis-a-vie the failure to accurately document the completion of ADs' for the MD-80 Fleet, are more accurately reflective of a failure in the Command and Control function soley the domain of Maintenance and Engineering Management. These areas are not a reflection on the men and women performing the work assigned.

As others have already stated, the performance of the dollar versus the veritable basket of International currencies would dictate that doing the work domestically is preferrable. I would additionally include that the political implications of domestic "in-sourcing" versus international "out-sourcing" should be included as factors during and election year.

Against a tide that bodes ill, the "wrenches" at American Airlines have begun to gain traction. We have begun the process of producing a product that others wish to purchase. What we have yet to accomplish is getting the bureacracy of AMR into a higher more efficient gear so that what we are capable of is delivered to the floor.

Threats of downsizing based on our real delivery versus our expectations of Promises Made and Promises Delivered is counterproductive.

 

[TWU informer]

I don't personally care nor give a crap how many work here or there.

I can damn sure tell the difference in my pay of 2001 versus today though.

I don't set my alarm to wake and go to work to subsidize somebody else a job. I go to work for a paycheck not some socialist order that requires me to have concern about work group headcount.

This thread is nothing more than a company troll attempting to discredit AMFA.

 

[enough already]

I don't personally care nor give a crap how many work here or there.

I can damn sure tell the difference in my pay of 2001 versus today though.

I don't set my alarm to wake and go to work to subsidize somebody else a job. I go to work for a paycheck not some socialist order that requires me to have concern about work group headcount.

This thread is nothing more than a company troll attempting to discredit AMFA.

A loaf of bread costs the same for everybody brother!!!

 

[Bill]

I don't personally care nor give a crap how many work here or there.

I can damn sure tell the difference in my pay of 2001 versus today though.

I don't set my alarm to wake and go to work to subsidize somebody else a job. I go to work for a paycheck not some socialist order that requires me to have concern about work group headcount.

This thread is nothing more than a company troll attempting to discredit AMFA.

Boo-freakin'-hoo!!! Amfa has discredited themselves genius. You just can't get over the fact that we are "gaining traction" (as Boomer put it). You have always attempted to set the TWU up to fail and when there is "movement" in the right direction you turn your ugly head an ignore it. You would rather hash the past. Cry foul and blame others. What have you done to improve your situation???? Other than a failed attempt at a take over??? You certainly aren't participating in the working together process........preaching against it. Always on the defensive though. :huh:

 

[AMFAMAN]

You have always attempted to set the TWU up to fail and when there is "movement" in the right direction you turn your ugly head an ignore it.

I'm kind of curious, what exactly do you call moving in the right direction; the 1.5% raises? Has there been something T/A'd that you have language on that is a movement in the right direction?

 

[TWU informer]

Boo-freakin'-hoo!!! Amfa has discredited themselves genius. You just can't get over the fact that we are "gaining traction" (as Boomer put it). You have always attempted to set the TWU up to fail and when there is "movement" in the right direction you turn your ugly head an ignore it. You would rather hash the past. Cry foul and blame others. What have you done to improve your situation???? Other than a failed attempt at a take over??? You certainly aren't participating in the working together process........preaching against it. Always on the defensive though. :huh:

Maybe you better go read the appointed TWU leader named Conley's latest take on your claim we are "gaining traction".

I do nothing to improve my situation because I have not been appointed to a leadership role and in fact not even allowed to run for office. How does the member with no voice in the affairs of the union effect change Bill? Your answer must be something other than blindly follow like you to be acceptable. The TWU would have to change into a democratic organization before myself or any other should waste time trying to improve our current situation. The Ultra Secret Negotiations is a perfect example. The TWU wants me to support a strike vote, our negotiators, wear a 2008 Negotiations shirt on Wednesdays, yet will not even tell me what we are asking for or details of where we our negotiations have gotten us. Blindly support this like a good member? FU Bill!

By the way, here is your appointed TWU leader's claim to "movement" in the right direction ROFL

Fuel costs could cut union demands on American
> Airlines By TREBOR BANSTETTER
> Star-Telegram Staff Writer
>
> PHOENIX -- Skyrocketing oil prices may cause a
> "seismic shift" in the
> airline industry that could affect ongoing labor
> talks, a top union official
> said Thursday.
>
> "Look, we're at $100 crude," said John Conley,
> air-transport division
> director at the Transport Workers Union, which
> represents ground workers at
> American Airlines as well as some employees at
> American Eagle, Southwest
> Airlines and other carriers. "I don't know that it
> bodes well for us being
> as successful [in negotiating new contracts] as we
> had once hoped."
>
> Conley appeared on a panel at the International
> Aviation Symposium in

So tell us Bill, how long has the "working together" ass kissing been going on and exactly what are we going to get in return? I think you are living a halucination and cannot even seen the truth in front of you.

You and the other blind faith minions have been hoodwinked by the company once again, just a repeat of the last 20+ years.

BILL " WE ARE GAINING TRACTION AND HAVE MOVEMENT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION"

 

[lpbrian]

where else does the price of oil affect the wages of front line workers than the airline industry? (wages for management will continue to skyrocket)

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

where else does the price of oil affect the wages of front line workers than the airline industry? (wages for management will continue to skyrocket)

Better yet, where else do you see a union leader using fuel prices for an excuse to suppress wages?

 

[Boomer]

Boo-freakin'-hoo!!! Amfa has discredited themselves genius. You just can't get over the fact that we are "gaining traction" (as Boomer put it). You have always attempted to set the TWU up to fail and when there is "movement" in the right direction you turn your ugly head an ignore it. You would rather hash the past. Cry foul and blame others. What have you done to improve your situation???? Other than a failed attempt at a take over??? You certainly aren't participating in the working together process........preaching against it. Always on the defensive though. :huh:

Bill,

I have enough problems without a typical TWU/AA Troll citing anything I say as supportive of the utter fiasco created by idiots such as yourself, the TWU Intl., and AA M&E Management.

The traction being gained is not reflective of the efforts of the TWU and AA M&E Mangement. In fact, I would posit that we are doing well in spite of the BS we get from both. The traction being gained is the result of men deciding that we can make this work despite the continual drenching of our legs that people like you keep telling us is rain: we know different.

In spite of the TWU/AA disenfranchisement of our ability to democratically choose our Union, we have not given up eventually putting the dead wood into the bonfire. Given the ability of the TWU to pick the winners, that day is coming closer; after all, didn't the TWU choose the only democratic candidate that chooses to refuse to count Florida voters again?

Despite the TWU/AA co-operative agreements that immediately and fully recognize my ability for an expeditious exit from the property for the failure to timely pay my dues; you have failed to deliver a reason that I should want to pay them. You guys are the model of the order in which tentative agreements are reached, and all without language released.

Bottom line is that you operate on the, "I've Got Mine, Brother" while telling the rest of us, "We'll Get'em Next Time!"

You may as well get a combined moniker with the other Mgt. trolls on the board.

 

[FWAAA]

I don't personally care nor give a crap how many work here or there.

I can damn sure tell the difference in my pay of 2001 versus today though.

I don't set my alarm to wake and go to work to subsidize somebody else a job. I go to work for a paycheck not some socialist order that requires me to have concern about work group headcount.

This thread is nothing more than a company troll attempting to discredit AMFA.

Maybe you should have cared how many worked at AA when you and your friends AMFA Dave and Decision 2004 were AMFA organizers. Had you paid more attention to the number in 2004, maybe you wouldn't have let your colleagues down the way you did when you stopped soliciting cards once you had what you thought was just over 50% of the class and craft.

Had you collected cards from 55% or 60% or even 70%, you would have been rid of the TWU. Instead, your worthless union and the company were able to play fast and loose with the numbers. That wouldn't have happened if you'd collected more cards.

Here's to hoping the next organizers to eliminate the TWU care a little more than you did.