How Much Are You Worth?

[traderjake]

How much is an hour of your labor worth?

How much is your house worth?

It's not what you paid for it. It's not what you think it's worth or what you're willing to sell it for.

Your house is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay you for it. You negoitate to determine what that price is. You may choose not to sell at that price but that does not change its value. The buyer will walk across the street and buy a comparable house.

How much is an hour of your labor worth? Whatever the public is willing to pay for it. When someone buys a ticket they don't care how much you made last year or what you think you're worth. You may choose not to work at that price but the customer will walk across the terminal and buy a ticket on Southwest or Jetblue.

All the resolve and solidarity in the world is not going to change that. We are either going to change or become extinct.

 

[BoeingBoy]

traderjake,

I agree that anything - a house, a can of beans, or an hour's labor - is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Your analogy breaks down when you equate that to the public buying an airline ticket. I do not stand on the sidewalk competing with a JetBlue pilot by offering my pilot services for $10 while he offers his for $8. PitBull isn't out there offering to serve the customer on board for $5 while a WN F/A is offering her service for $4.

The "person" we negotiate with is management. They buy our services by the hour and then use those hours to produce a product - a seat on an airplane that's going from point A to point B. Management can use the resources to produce that product efficiently or not. Management is responsible striking a deal with the ultimate purchaser of that product - the passenger - not the individual worker.

Just as in your house example, the workers reach a deal with management and a contract is signed. At that point, both sides have a right to expect the other to abide by that contract. I know that I wouldn't want the person that signed a contract to buy my house coming back the next day with "I want hardwood floors instead of carpets - change it" or "My bank won't loan me that much so the new price is $x". But that's just me.

Jim

 

[sentrido]

Why is it ok for a "business" to negotiate the best deals it can with whomever it does business. But when a group of organized individuals do the same they are criticized? We did change! What are they(management) waiting for? All of USAirs problems at this point are organizational, not labor related. Why should the employees subsidize managements failures? They already have the cheapest labor of any major. What more do they want? Unions dont make the schedules. Unions dont hedge fuel.Unions dont make the business decisions.

 

[tim]

How much is an hour of your labor worth?

How much is your house worth?

It's not what you paid for it. It's not what you think it's worth or what you're willing to sell it for.

Your house is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay you for it. You negoitate to determine what that price is. You may choose not to sell at that price but that does not change its value. The buyer will walk across the street and buy a comparable house.

How much is an hour of your labor worth? Whatever the public is willing to pay for it. When someone buys a ticket they don't care how much you made last year or what you think you're worth. You may choose not to work at that price but the customer will walk across the terminal and buy a ticket on Southwest or Jetblue.

All the resolve and solidarity in the world is not going to change that. We are either going to change or become extinct.

Your analogy is weak at best and pathetic in reality.

Being an apologist for this management team trying
to justify their incompetence is all I see here.

Give it another shot, this one failed.

 

[pitguy]

Wouldn't it be weird for an Aircraft Mechanic to stand up on the jet way as passengers board and have the Mechanic hold out a can to collect money in. The more he collects the more apt your plane is to be safe. I guess you could even use a Flight Attendant or Pilot and see the same anomaly.

--Ever hear this expression about motorcycle helmets? When deciding what helmet to buy the cheaper one to the more expensive one, I have heard "if our have a $10 head then buy a $10 helmet".

(((What does all this mean? Heck if I know...)))

 

[repeet]

traderjake
Posted on Feb 22 2004, 09:48 PM

How much is an hour of your labor worth?

How much is your house worth?

Your house is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay you for it.

Actually, your right. (but you knew that)

But organized labor disagrees with an assumption of yours. They know, and are willing to bet their livelyhood on it, that their expertise and skill is not avialable on the market for less.

Billly's Corner Garage may advertise itself as just as trained, and just as tooled as the manufactures dealership garage, but the proof is in the pudding.

I would encourage the I.A.M. to refuse to work on any aircraft that has just returned from third party maintenance. If it has an emergency landing, then some eager pilot can ferry it back to Alabama to be repaired. Or maybe the vender can "road trip" some of their mechanics to where ever their product pooped out.

The mechanics have decided that, what they provide cannot be offered for less. The company would be free to shop for cheaper services, except for the fact that they already have a contract for that work (signed only a year ago).

Yes the courts will decide. So we shall see, won't we?

 

[traderjake]

Your analogy is weak at best and pathetic in reality.

Being an apologist for this management team trying
to justify their incompetence is all I see here.

Give it another shot, this one failed.

Another hardliner living in the past.

Is that you, Charlie Byran?

 

[PITbull]

Is that you, Lorenzo? Charlie here.

 

[BoeingBoy]

traderjake,

Actually, your analogy would have been spot on if you had said building a house instead of buying/selling a house.

When you build a house, you have the plans drawn to your specifications - a simple ranch or a complex mansion. You hire carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers, masons, etc. You decide to hire whoever will work for the least or to hire the best. You shop for all the various materials. You schedule all the workers - if you want the plumbers sitting around waiting for the electricians, it's your choice. You schedule the delivery of all the materials. When finished, all those decisions you made determine the final cost of the house. Then it's up to you to find a buyer. If they're willing to pay more than your cost, you make a profit. If they're not, you lose.

Oh, that would make you the "management", wouldn't it.

Jim

 

[Colby]

Wouldn't it be weird for an Aircraft Mechanic to stand up on the jet way as passengers board and have the Mechanic hold out a can to collect money in.

While your at it make sure the Flight Attendants have TIP CANS on the Beverage cart to make sure Drinks are Served CORRECTLY and of Course Don't Forget that they are able to Save ANY and EVERY ones life when needed !!!!

 

[Dea Certe]

Some one had to finally take a stand against Frank Lorenzo. He was an incompetent, grasping, greedy slime ball.

Those people at Eastern knew they were going down for the last time. They had given and given. Eastern Airlines was looted by Lorenzo.

Those fine folks did what had to be done. They were brave enough to face it. They have my undying respect. Because of them, Frank can no longer own airlines. The bankruptcy code was rewritten so it couldn't happen again. We owe those folks our gratitude.

And no better come on here and give some flip response about how they cut their noses off to spite their faces. They didn't. They put an end to a truly despicable CEO.

One word from anyone and I'll smack you with a rolled up newspaper like a dog.

Dea

 

[PITbull]

Dea,

You are by far, the best!

 

[wings396]

One would like to think that you are worth more today than you were 20 years ago.
Several of us have been taken back that far in wages the past 2 years. While most understood that future raises were unrealistic, we had hopes of at least maintaining a decent wage to live on. Why is it that people attack airfares and airline employee wages, but few other consumer goods and their outrageous costs? Why do consumers continue to pay skyrocketing prices for sub-par automobiles? You don't see an outrage about the cost of anything as much as the price of an airline ticket.
While our wages have gone lower, the cost of food,clothing, educatation,housing and wonderful Taxes continue to rise each year. If wages in the US continue to be slashed, costs in other sectors must follow. I spoke to a group of Nurses that were on Strike in my area this past summer about some of their issues and was able to share the cuts that I had taken in my field. They were shocked and I read a few weeks later that they had settled for a 16% wage increase of the next 3 years. So the cost of Health Care will again rise and my slashed wages will cover them. We are going in the wrong direction here aren't we.

 

[PITbull]

Hey Bob,

Since its Labor you are forever trying to educate on the conomy, life's whoes and "sea changes", and realities of no opportunities, do you have any advice for management?

Or is it just easier to manipulate labor, just like everyone else does? Why is it that greed can go "unchecked" in the Senior Executive headquarters across this country?

Or are they just so much more valuable to the "bottom line"?


If you notice, labor is not out there giving out ultimatims.

 

[tim]

Some one had to finally take a stand against Frank Lorenzo. He was an incompetent, grasping, greedy slime ball.

Those people at Eastern knew they were going down for the last time. They had given and given. Eastern Airlines was looted by Lorenzo.

Speaking of these wizards.

Recently talking to a co-worker who worked for these wizards. Worked at the big E for 15 years and then moved on to U and has been at U 16 years. Seems he has taken a pay cut for the last 19 years working for both E and U.

Like he told me, the cuts didn't help a thing. When they took the first hit at the big E they were one billion dollars in debt and when taking the second hit not long afterwards they were at two billion in debt.

Seems like this management team that U is so unfortunate to have, has taken lessons from the true wizards of aviation business school. They learned their lessons well doing a splendid job at flying the place into the ground with the employees in the front row seats.

It is amazing to see defenders of the wizards in place at U, I wonder what causes such confusion that these poor innocents are suffering?