How US Airways was saved

[700UW]

I believe they made around $225k, never made $300k.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So let me get this right. A SW 737 captain(I assume) makes 190 per hour and our guys make 125, what should a 330 captain make. I remember when the 330 guys were making $310,000 per year, for flying an airplane. My god. I mentioned that to the guys I was flying with and they both denied it, said I was an idiot and that no pilot at US made that kind of money. They shut up pretty quick when I pulled out a list of the highest paid pilots at each airline(which could be found on the PIT ALPA board in the crewroom). That post came down pretty quick after that. Can't say I blame them.Then all of the sudden, it was" Oh, thats only a couple guys" United was #1 at 350K, we were #2. We really needed to get things back on track. It was getting out of hand. Don't get me wrong, I respect everything you guys do up on the flightdeck, and I have been around aviation my whole life(Dad was Air Force pilot and is still instructor to this day at age 70). He would always joke"Damn, I should have gone the civilian route". But he is more than happy helping you future pilots get yout ATP.

For a short while, the US A330 captains probably were earning a salary at about that level. It's nowhere near that now. One of the advantges of having the most senior salaries at that level is that the industry attracts talented, highly-motivated people to do a safety-critical job. Pilots, like physicians, are not so much paid for what they DO as much as for what they KNOW and for their experience level.

Now that salaries have gone back to the early 1980's (in dollar amounts) and probably the late 1960's in infaltion-adjusted dollars, there will be little incentive for these same highly-motived people to enter the career field. Who would spend $50K to train, plus 10-15 years at slave wages to get a job that pays so little after another 10+ years at a major carrier?

What we will see is a tremendous pressure to allow foreign pilots to work the airlines. Many will be paid in goats and chickens. And the level of service will be commensurate with those salaries.

Mindless capitalism will again prevail. You will get what you pay for.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The figure you saw probably originated with the "supervisory pilots" - generally check airmen. They're paid a full block for the equipment they train plus an override - I think it's 9-10%. It's not unusual to get a different picture depending on whether you look at the "highest paid pilots" at an airline (generally the check airmen) or the hourly pay rates (WN 737 drivers probably make as much or more per hour than our 330 drivers do currently).

Additionally, that pay rate (the 2nd raise under the "parity + 1%" that Wolf demanded) only lasted 2 or 3 months. It went into effect during concessionary negotiations pre-BK1 and ended with the agreement reached during those negotiations. So it is definitely a fact that no US pilot made that much during any 12 month period.

Jim

 

[N109UW]

I believe they made around $225k, never made $300k.

It was right. It came from ALPA. I think they should know your salary. And it was 310K.

The figure you saw probably originated with the "supervisory pilots" - generally check airmen. They're paid a full block for the equipment they train plus an override - I think it's 9-10%. It's not unusual to get a different picture depending on whether you look at the "highest paid pilots" at an airline (generally the check airmen) or the hourly pay rates (WN 737 drivers probably make as much or more per hour than our 330 drivers do currently).

Additionally, that pay rate (the 2nd raise under the "parity + 1%" that Wolf demanded) only lasted 2 or 3 months. It went into effect during concessionary negotiations pre-BK1 and ended with the agreement reached during those negotiations. So it is definitely a fact that no US pilot made that much during any 12 month period.

Jim

It didn't state check airman or not and it was after the Delta pilot contract. That parity +1 came back to bite US in the ass, If I recall correctly, ALPA didn't want it at first, but Wolf wasn't going to order the Busses we you all didn't agree. Good for you guys.

 

[javaboy]

So let me get this right. A SW 737 captain(I assume) makes 190 per hour and our guys make 125, what should a 330 captain make. I remember when the 330 guys were making $310,000 per year, for flying an airplane. My god. I mentioned that to the guys I was flying with and they both denied it, said I was an idiot and that no pilot at US made that kind of money. They shut up pretty quick when I pulled out a list of the highest paid pilots at each airline(which could be found on the PIT ALPA board in the crewroom). That post came down pretty quick after that. Can't say I blame them.Then all of the sudden, it was" Oh, thats only a couple guys" United was #1 at 350K, we were #2. We really needed to get things back on track. It was getting out of hand. Don't get me wrong, I respect everything you guys do up on the flightdeck, and I have been around aviation my whole life(Dad was Air Force pilot and is still instructor to this day at age 70). He would always joke"Damn, I should have gone the civilian route". But he is more than happy helping you future pilots get yout ATP.

just some stats

the most unionized airline in the industry = southwest
highest paid narrow body pilots = southwest
most profitable (consistanly) = southwest
lowest load factor = southwest
most hedged airline = southwest

just adding to the discussion thats all.

 

[traderjake]

This guy is not a hero. He was the first MEC Chairman to urge his pilot group to capitulate, twice, to the demands of an over-reaching and incompentent management in order to (in his mind) save "jobs".

pilot

Pollock and 57% of the pilots saved this company from guys like you who aren't smart enough to see we came close to being liquidated more than once. This isn't United or Delta, we could have disappeared and nobody would have missed us.

 

[pilot]

Explain to me, smart guy, just how we got into the position of being "liquidated" more than once. Read my first post again. I fully believe we had to help this company survive. We did in BK one. The second time around the management raped us without cause and Pollock allowed it to happen. Along with your 57%.

So, smart guy, explain to me how Southwest can make money paying their guys what they do and we cannot. Care to take that one on? Management screamed we must have a cost structure like an LCC. Well, our labor costs are the lowest in the business and the pilot costs are absurdly low and we still bleed money like a stuck pig. And I'm not smart enough to know what? Liquidation?

People like you expect pilots to subsidize high fuel, hundred buck round trips to Plorida and incompetent management so you can have a job. Then let management walk away with bonuses to "keep the team together". Wake up Sparky.

As far as missing us goes - GE Capital would have missed us big time. Just how is it you think we didn't liqudate? Because of the pilots? Big money talks smart guy. GE saved us. Not the pilots.

pilot

 

[fatherabraham]

Pilot,

In general terms I get the impression the " 57% " are largely comprised of idividuals looking out for #1 only and not as a union. Sure there are a zillion reasons for thier cowardly votes. I would guess the top reasons are the 1) advanced ages ( less expenses & less ability to start over ) 2) Been captain 90+ percentage of carreer VS. the barely just less senior pilots 3) Do not have the post high school education that is typical of most legacy carrier captains.

Best of luck with your group.

FA

 

[EricLv2Fish]

just some stats

the most unionized airline in the industry = southwest
highest paid narrow body pilots = southwest
most profitable (consistanly) = southwest
lowest load factor = southwest
most hedged airline = southwest

just adding to the discussion thats all.

Different business plan...point to point flying. Like Bob has said...SWA knows who they are and they execute the play extremely well.

 

[careerfurloughee]

Different business plan...point to point flying. Like Bob has said...SWA knows who they are and they execute the play extremely well.

All a product of management.

 

[pilot]

Bingo

 

[Walmartgreeter]

The PA Representatives, along with the BOS Captain Representative, used their "roll call" vote to turn down this offer and instead became the first MEC to provide an airline a Letter of Agreement or contract worse than management's offer.


Hence, you ran for elected office in one of the smallest, most ANTI PIT/PHL bases in the system...and they would not elect you. You can "roll" out the rhetoric again and again..but that will not make it true. Pollock has not even flown an aircraft for what..almost 3 years now. He only lately bothered to get a medical. Under his stewardship the U pilot group managed to not only "help" the company out of BK twice, but in the process lost their retirements AND lifestyles. I welcome the unanimous vote the U MEC has given our new MEC Chair..one who is actually a pilot..and look forward to supporting him. But if his agenda is no more than your's..revisionist history, its going to be a long ride to solidarity. Greeter.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Walmartgreeter:

Since yo want to talk about an election, I think it's interesting that you "EDITED BY MODERATOR".

What's interesting is that the PA Representatives held the "roll cal" vote during LOA 93 negotiations and were in charge of the first MEC in the history of ALPA to direct a Negotiating Committee that provided an airline a TA with a concession greater than the company's "ask". That's brilliant...right?

That's a fact and if it was not for Bill Pollock telling the truth and letting the rank-and-file know accurate information...US Airways would be out of buisness today.

For example, Bill Pollock said in the ALPA March 2 code-a-phone, "I also told you in my letter that I would not stand by and watch a replay of the LOA 93 negotiations where our negotiating committee was controlled by the four members of the MEC from PIT and PHL. We are all too painfully aware of the agreement that type of micromanagement produced. If the PIT and PHL reps have their way now, we would pull out of these joint negotiations and be relegated as spectators, watching the AWA pilots determine our fate at the bargaining table. You have unquestionably earned the right to be more active participants in your future."

"The PIT and PHL reps also have a history of distributing incomplete, misleading and many times flat out incorrect information. Their communications have been addressed and corrected numerous times by our Communications Committee Chairman. How unfortunate for us all that they intend to take out the messenger when they don't like the message," Pollock noted.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we must stay focused. You cannot sit silently back and allow the antics of a few to disrupt meaningful progress and waste valuable opportunity," Pollock said.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[fly with US]

You know, Pollock might have done a lot to save US, but I can never forgive him for how he treated the MDA and furloughed pilots.

 

[pilot]

If Pollock is such a truthful, well meaning and respected man, why is he no longer the MEC Chairman? Wouldn't you think our pilot group would be forever in his debt and want him to continue his "airline saving" ways?

It's in the past, it's time to move on and hope that the 57% will see that pilot costs are not the reason airlines prosper or fail. It's time to stand up for the profession and realize what it is we do for a living.

pilot