How will UA be sold off? What will the other airlines get?

AA191

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Sep 17, 2002
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As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet?
 

UnitedChicago

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AA191:[BR][BR]First...what a great screne name! Make light of aviation's worst disaster and loss of lives![BR][BR]Second...there is no forgone conclusion UA will be liquidated. For numerous reasons...
 

UnitedChicago

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AA191:[BR][BR]First...what a great screne name! Make light of aviation's worst disaster and loss of lives![BR][BR]Second...there is no forgone conclusion UA will be liquidated. For numerous reasons...
 
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A

AA191

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United Chicago Thanks - My life was altered permanently because of that accident.

However, I have and always will think and know that UA is the best airline.
 
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A

AA191

Advanced
Sep 17, 2002
218
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United Chicago Thanks - My life was altered permanently because of that accident.

However, I have and always will think and know that UA is the best airline.
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 8:59:09 AM AA191 wrote:
[P]As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet? [/P]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P align=left][FONT size=1] How do you reach the conclusion UA will sell off assets? UA has some [BR] issues to address at the moment, but don't go selling them off just yet.[BR][BR] This is similar to walking through a sick relatives house and putting post its[BR] on the things you'd like to get your hands on should they not recover.[/FONT][/P]
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 8:59:09 AM AA191 wrote:
[P]As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet? [/P]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P align=left][FONT size=1] How do you reach the conclusion UA will sell off assets? UA has some [BR] issues to address at the moment, but don't go selling them off just yet.[BR][BR] This is similar to walking through a sick relatives house and putting post its[BR] on the things you'd like to get your hands on should they not recover.[/FONT][/P]
 

767jetz

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,286
2,779
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 8:59:09 AM AA191 wrote:

As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet?
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[/blockquote]


Selling assets????!!!!!! What planet are you on? CH11 is quite different than CH7. UA is not headed for liquidation. Only reorganization. Selling Asia and Europe would be like shooting the cash cow. TWA made this mistake many years ago when they sold off LHR.

Remember that UA's new management and the labor coalition, and all of UA's and ALPA's financial advisors thought they had a viable business plan going into the future. The ATSB says the plan is flawed. It is interesting to note their comment that it was not just about cost (ie: labor) but United's revenue forecast. One must also remember that the ATSB decision was VERY politically motivated. Anyone who thinks it was not is niave. Now that we will probably be in a new venue with the BK judge, at least we will not be dealing with polititians and venemous attacks by our competitors.

Our competition will ONLY benefit from a liquidation of UA, not a reorganization. And reorganization is our goal. Outside of court would have been better of course. None the less, the reorganization will happen anyway. Our customers are quite business savy. (consider that we have historically had a higher percentage of business travelers than other carriers) They know that a CH11 filing is not the end of UA, and we will continue to operate. IMO I would not expect a significant shift in bookings away from UA. Most people are of the opinion (either correctly or perceived) that UA is just too big and important to go away.

IMO, what people can now expect is basically a modification of the plan Glen Tilton would have enacted outside of court. There will probably be similar concessions for the employees. Maybe a few more savings here and there, or 2-3% more pay concessions. The exception possibly being the mechanics. There will certainly be some trimming of unprofitable routes and more furloughs. Don't hold your breath for a fire sale of assets. Also, don't expect us to take the same path as US Airways. As has been pointed out many times before, we are 2 totally different entities, and our ability to repay debt will be different. We may not have been able to sell the ATSB on our plan due to the politics involved, but that doesn't mean we will be unable to convince the courts. In fact I'm starting to believe that the court may be a more fair playing field that the government and the ATSB.
 

767jetz

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,286
2,779
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 8:59:09 AM AA191 wrote:

As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet?
----------------
[/blockquote]


Selling assets????!!!!!! What planet are you on? CH11 is quite different than CH7. UA is not headed for liquidation. Only reorganization. Selling Asia and Europe would be like shooting the cash cow. TWA made this mistake many years ago when they sold off LHR.

Remember that UA's new management and the labor coalition, and all of UA's and ALPA's financial advisors thought they had a viable business plan going into the future. The ATSB says the plan is flawed. It is interesting to note their comment that it was not just about cost (ie: labor) but United's revenue forecast. One must also remember that the ATSB decision was VERY politically motivated. Anyone who thinks it was not is niave. Now that we will probably be in a new venue with the BK judge, at least we will not be dealing with polititians and venemous attacks by our competitors.

Our competition will ONLY benefit from a liquidation of UA, not a reorganization. And reorganization is our goal. Outside of court would have been better of course. None the less, the reorganization will happen anyway. Our customers are quite business savy. (consider that we have historically had a higher percentage of business travelers than other carriers) They know that a CH11 filing is not the end of UA, and we will continue to operate. IMO I would not expect a significant shift in bookings away from UA. Most people are of the opinion (either correctly or perceived) that UA is just too big and important to go away.

IMO, what people can now expect is basically a modification of the plan Glen Tilton would have enacted outside of court. There will probably be similar concessions for the employees. Maybe a few more savings here and there, or 2-3% more pay concessions. The exception possibly being the mechanics. There will certainly be some trimming of unprofitable routes and more furloughs. Don't hold your breath for a fire sale of assets. Also, don't expect us to take the same path as US Airways. As has been pointed out many times before, we are 2 totally different entities, and our ability to repay debt will be different. We may not have been able to sell the ATSB on our plan due to the politics involved, but that doesn't mean we will be unable to convince the courts. In fact I'm starting to believe that the court may be a more fair playing field that the government and the ATSB.
 

atlmd80

Member
Nov 30, 2002
34
0
Besides the route structure, I see a lot of similarities between U and UAL. The judge does not care about size or route structure, only paying off debt. I think a 2-3% reduction in pay is optimistic. An article posted on another thread said 9 billion was what was needed for labor savings. That is about 30-40% in pay cuts.
 

atlmd80

Member
Nov 30, 2002
34
0
Besides the route structure, I see a lot of similarities between U and UAL. The judge does not care about size or route structure, only paying off debt. I think a 2-3% reduction in pay is optimistic. An article posted on another thread said 9 billion was what was needed for labor savings. That is about 30-40% in pay cuts.
 

lstwhknight

Member
Oct 25, 2002
43
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 8:59:09 AM AA191 wrote:

As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet?
----------------
[/blockquote]
UAL if they go thru BK will,sell off routes that dont make them money,also sell routes that do make them money if the price is good,close stations that dont make them money,sell gates,cut back in staffing,cut pay as much as they can,get concessions from vendors(as the vendor stand to lose as much or more)they will sell off any owned equipment for cash,and park airplanes-sell them if they can,
Bottom line is turn the airline around from the nose dive its in,come up with a new BK plan to get some help to stay afloat while doing that.
UAL isn't so big they can't go under.There are many other start up airlines that would love to see UAL go down.
UAL will do whatever they can to stay in business,And some of it can be seem ugly,mean,uncaring to its employees.But if UAL doesn't take action that meets the level called for,it may not have any employees.
 

lstwhknight

Member
Oct 25, 2002
43
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 8:59:09 AM AA191 wrote:

As UA will most likely sell off assets, what airline will get what? Asia routes? Australia routes? European routes? Will America West take the Airbus fleet?
----------------
[/blockquote]
UAL if they go thru BK will,sell off routes that dont make them money,also sell routes that do make them money if the price is good,close stations that dont make them money,sell gates,cut back in staffing,cut pay as much as they can,get concessions from vendors(as the vendor stand to lose as much or more)they will sell off any owned equipment for cash,and park airplanes-sell them if they can,
Bottom line is turn the airline around from the nose dive its in,come up with a new BK plan to get some help to stay afloat while doing that.
UAL isn't so big they can't go under.There are many other start up airlines that would love to see UAL go down.
UAL will do whatever they can to stay in business,And some of it can be seem ugly,mean,uncaring to its employees.But if UAL doesn't take action that meets the level called for,it may not have any employees.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 10:33:36 AM atlmd80 wrote:

... I think a 2-3% reduction in pay is optimistic. An article posted on another thread said 9 billion was what was needed for labor savings. That is about 30-40% in pay cuts.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I agree about it being optimistic, but 30 - 40% is pretty steep.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 10:33:36 AM atlmd80 wrote:

... I think a 2-3% reduction in pay is optimistic. An article posted on another thread said 9 billion was what was needed for labor savings. That is about 30-40% in pay cuts.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I agree about it being optimistic, but 30 - 40% is pretty steep.