Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it''s budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL''s before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It''s going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year.
Huge American cash burn
- Thread starter kiowa
- Start date
grndproxwarning
Member
- Oct 14, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 1/11/2003 7:36:54 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:
[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 1/11/2003 7
42 PM kiowa wrote:
Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it's budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL's before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It's going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[/P]............bankruptcy by June.......August at the latest.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Carty better hurry and stock up on his golf balls,before
all the money is gone..
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On 1/11/2003 7:36:54 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:
[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------
On 1/11/2003 7
42 PM kiowa wrote: Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it's budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL's before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It's going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[/P]............bankruptcy by June.......August at the latest.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Carty better hurry and stock up on his golf balls,before
all the money is gone..
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 742 PM kiowa wrote:
[P]Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it's budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL's before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It's going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]............bankruptcy by June.......August at the latest.
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 7
42 PM kiowa wrote: [P]Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it's budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL's before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It's going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]............bankruptcy by June.......August at the latest.
Wild Onion
Advanced
- Aug 21, 2002
- 120
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/11/2003 742 PM kiowa wrote:
Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it's budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL's before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It's going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Over $2 million of the $4 million has already been identified and cut. So, in reality it's more like $5 million a day (which is what management has been stating). Still pretty bad.
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On 1/11/2003 7
42 PM kiowa wrote: Carty said this week that American Airlines (employees of course) had to cut $4 billion out of it's budget this year just to break even. That equates to over $10.9 million per day cash burn! That is also considerably more than UAL's before they declared bankruptcy. Hang on folks. It's going to be some rough turbulance at American Airlines this year.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Over $2 million of the $4 million has already been identified and cut. So, in reality it's more like $5 million a day (which is what management has been stating). Still pretty bad.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
[blockquote]
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On 1/12/2003 6:36:52 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]
NHBB,
What do you mean Karl Rove (or the Republicans; or the government in general) won't "let" AA file Ch.11?
That's what people at UA were saying a couple of months ago. That's what they are still saying now in regards to a possible UA liquidation-- "The government won't 'let' us go under. We're too big / too important to the economy / etc."
That's also what PA and EA employees were saying until the end.
So my question to them now (and to you) is, What is the government going to do then to PREVENT it? Write AA or UA a big fat multi-billion dollar check from the taxpayers, more than they already have? I doubt THAT would go over to well politically (with people like John McCain; or other txpayers who are sick of their tax dollars going to bail out failing companies); or the folks at Southwest or jetBlue who seem to be managing pretty well.
Especially in the case of UA-- if the government REALLY wanted to not "let" UA go out of business, the easiest way to help would have been to grant the ATSB loan guarantee, and we know how that ended up.
So, NHBB and all the others who believe the government won't "let" AA file Ch.11-- If AA can't prevent it on their own, how do you envision the government stepping in and preventing it, exactly?
----------------
On 1/12/2003 6:36:52 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]
NHBB,
What do you mean Karl Rove (or the Republicans; or the government in general) won't "let" AA file Ch.11?
That's what people at UA were saying a couple of months ago. That's what they are still saying now in regards to a possible UA liquidation-- "The government won't 'let' us go under. We're too big / too important to the economy / etc."
That's also what PA and EA employees were saying until the end.
So my question to them now (and to you) is, What is the government going to do then to PREVENT it? Write AA or UA a big fat multi-billion dollar check from the taxpayers, more than they already have? I doubt THAT would go over to well politically (with people like John McCain; or other txpayers who are sick of their tax dollars going to bail out failing companies); or the folks at Southwest or jetBlue who seem to be managing pretty well.
Especially in the case of UA-- if the government REALLY wanted to not "let" UA go out of business, the easiest way to help would have been to grant the ATSB loan guarantee, and we know how that ended up.
So, NHBB and all the others who believe the government won't "let" AA file Ch.11-- If AA can't prevent it on their own, how do you envision the government stepping in and preventing it, exactly?
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/12/2003 6:36:52 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]
********************************************************
NN/BB,
15 or so years ago at the U.S. flag carrier PA they said the same thing. PA's blue ball was #1 logo in the world. The 2nd closest logo was Coke(now the 1st). The 747 fleet was refurbished with huge cargo doors on the left rear side, paid for by the Govt. In the event of war they would use the 747's to hual men and supplies. I remember the denial of the employees. "The Govt. will not let Americas Flag carrier go under"
Just keep your mindset and every thing will be OK for the rest of the industry.
Stop taking the LSD; your vision is really a bad trip.
----------------
On 1/12/2003 6:36:52 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]
********************************************************
NN/BB,
15 or so years ago at the U.S. flag carrier PA they said the same thing. PA's blue ball was #1 logo in the world. The 2nd closest logo was Coke(now the 1st). The 747 fleet was refurbished with huge cargo doors on the left rear side, paid for by the Govt. In the event of war they would use the 747's to hual men and supplies. I remember the denial of the employees. "The Govt. will not let Americas Flag carrier go under"
Just keep your mindset and every thing will be OK for the rest of the industry.
Stop taking the LSD; your vision is really a bad trip.
B
BottomFeeder
Guest
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/13/2003 9:58:24 AM Hopeful wrote:
Bottom Feeder, I remember the exact words of some senior PANAM employees and it was "The Government will never let the Blue Ball deflate"
----------------
[/blockquote]
I believe the saying goes " Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it."
I hope the AA employees will not have the " It won't happen to me" mindset. The good thing is to be able to have an open mind and learn from the others before you. I would like to see the Eagle soar for generations to come.
GOD Bless America
----------------
On 1/13/2003 9:58:24 AM Hopeful wrote:
Bottom Feeder, I remember the exact words of some senior PANAM employees and it was "The Government will never let the Blue Ball deflate"
----------------
[/blockquote]
I believe the saying goes " Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it."
I hope the AA employees will not have the " It won't happen to me" mindset. The good thing is to be able to have an open mind and learn from the others before you. I would like to see the Eagle soar for generations to come.
GOD Bless America
Wild Onion
Advanced
- Aug 21, 2002
- 120
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The difference between PanAm and AA is that AA right now is a much larger percentage of the overall national air travel infrastructure.
If AA were getting close to Chapter 7, that would mean UA was long gone. The nation could handle losing either UA or AA, but not both.
If AA were getting close to Chapter 7, that would mean UA was long gone. The nation could handle losing either UA or AA, but not both.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
Anyone who thinks that a Republican administration is going to jump in and start rescuing airlines beyond what has already been done should immediatly proceed to their supervisor, and request to have a non-random drug test. Immediately.
Based on the Democrats who have already announced intention to run in 2004, Bush will be re-elected hands down, assuming he doesn't get caught playing doctor with a White House intern pregnant on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial...
Would there be some chaos? Absolutely. But you'd also see the surviving carriers throwing extra capacity into the harder hit profitable markets overnight. Some places would simply be relegated to the second or third tier markets that they really are.
But I'd be willing to bet that after about a month or two of reasjustment, you'd never know the failed carriers were gone.
E
Based on the Democrats who have already announced intention to run in 2004, Bush will be re-elected hands down, assuming he doesn't get caught playing doctor with a White House intern pregnant on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial...
Would there be some chaos? Absolutely. But you'd also see the surviving carriers throwing extra capacity into the harder hit profitable markets overnight. Some places would simply be relegated to the second or third tier markets that they really are.
But I'd be willing to bet that after about a month or two of reasjustment, you'd never know the failed carriers were gone.
E
Rational Thought
Member
- Dec 5, 2002
- 66
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/12/2003 6:36:52 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
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[/blockquote]
I am pretty confident he wont for two reasons:
1. UAL is in chapter 11 and no one seems to be suffering aside from UAL employees. The planes are still flying, people are still moving. So, what would make an AA ch11 somehow more "damaging" to the economy? Nothing.
2. Assuming politics is at play, which I don't. What political genius would sacrifice an airline based in Illinios and save one in Texas. GWB is a lock for Texas, Illinious...now there you have a lot of electoral votes and a closer race. If anything, he should have saved UAL if it was polical. And exactly how many votes do Republicans lose when a union dominated firm goes under? Maybe 3 or 4.
All in all, I don't think politics are at play and even if they were, they go against AA.
Good luck. You'll have to save yourselves. But I doubt AA will be able to.
----------------
On 1/12/2003 6:36:52 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:
WingNaPrayer;
Where can I get some of that potent SH*T that your smokin', regarding a (potential) AA BK ????????????
Do you HONESTLY think that DUMBYA/Karl Rove is going to let the #1 largest airline(BASED IN TEXAS), follow the #2 US airline, into BK court, on their watch, with RE-Election(GOD FORBID), just around the corner ??????????????????
DO YOU REALLY ?????????
NH/BB's
----------------
[/blockquote]
I am pretty confident he wont for two reasons:
1. UAL is in chapter 11 and no one seems to be suffering aside from UAL employees. The planes are still flying, people are still moving. So, what would make an AA ch11 somehow more "damaging" to the economy? Nothing.
2. Assuming politics is at play, which I don't. What political genius would sacrifice an airline based in Illinios and save one in Texas. GWB is a lock for Texas, Illinious...now there you have a lot of electoral votes and a closer race. If anything, he should have saved UAL if it was polical. And exactly how many votes do Republicans lose when a union dominated firm goes under? Maybe 3 or 4.
All in all, I don't think politics are at play and even if they were, they go against AA.
Good luck. You'll have to save yourselves. But I doubt AA will be able to.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/13/2003 2:17:51 PM Rational Thought wrote:
2. Assuming politics is at play, which I don't. What political genius would sacrifice an airline based in Illinios and save one in Texas. GWB is a lock for Texas, Illinious...now there you have a lot of electoral votes and a closer race. If anything, he should have saved UAL if it was polical. And exactly how many votes do Republicans lose when a union dominated firm goes under? Maybe 3 or 4.
----------------
[/blockquote]
You, my friend, have it exactly right. In the world of the Electorate College, States that count are the ones where you are weak. Regardless of what happens in Texas before 2004, it will go in GW's corner. If re-election were his concern with regard to the airlines, Illinois would be the smart place to make friends. It obviously wasn't.
I hope AA get's it's house in order before CH11 closes in. At UA and US we have very little leverage left. We will get what they give us for now. The last thing we as an industry need is another large group of employees getting the shaft and dragging average wages down further. This unfortunately is the goal of the current administration. (And I'm saying this as a registered Republican.) Lower wages means less dues money to organized labor, less $ going to the PAC, and less $ for GW's opponents.
I hope for the best at AA. However as many friends have said throughout the industry, "same circus... different clowns." My opinion is that mistrust of management along with labor denial will soon take hold at AA. We are like a convoy headed into a major storm. First USAir. Then United. AA, Delta, and NW are just behind. Hopefully someone will pull over, take a detour, or the storm will subside.
On another note, if UA restructures successfully, (which I'm still confident we will) it will only make things harder for AA management and employees, since they will be competing with a still large, but substantially lower cost competitor.
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On 1/13/2003 2:17:51 PM Rational Thought wrote:
2. Assuming politics is at play, which I don't. What political genius would sacrifice an airline based in Illinios and save one in Texas. GWB is a lock for Texas, Illinious...now there you have a lot of electoral votes and a closer race. If anything, he should have saved UAL if it was polical. And exactly how many votes do Republicans lose when a union dominated firm goes under? Maybe 3 or 4.
----------------
[/blockquote]
You, my friend, have it exactly right. In the world of the Electorate College, States that count are the ones where you are weak. Regardless of what happens in Texas before 2004, it will go in GW's corner. If re-election were his concern with regard to the airlines, Illinois would be the smart place to make friends. It obviously wasn't.
I hope AA get's it's house in order before CH11 closes in. At UA and US we have very little leverage left. We will get what they give us for now. The last thing we as an industry need is another large group of employees getting the shaft and dragging average wages down further. This unfortunately is the goal of the current administration. (And I'm saying this as a registered Republican.) Lower wages means less dues money to organized labor, less $ going to the PAC, and less $ for GW's opponents.
I hope for the best at AA. However as many friends have said throughout the industry, "same circus... different clowns." My opinion is that mistrust of management along with labor denial will soon take hold at AA. We are like a convoy headed into a major storm. First USAir. Then United. AA, Delta, and NW are just behind. Hopefully someone will pull over, take a detour, or the storm will subside.
On another note, if UA restructures successfully, (which I'm still confident we will) it will only make things harder for AA management and employees, since they will be competing with a still large, but substantially lower cost competitor.
