How much was our debt in 2002 ? { Somewhere in the ballpark of 21 to 23 Billion } Where is it now 7 to 9 billion or so ! How much money were we told was in cash reserve 500 million. What do we have now 4.5 billion or so. How under funded was our pension then ? It is much better funded now ! These are all good things for AA. We are not doing nearly as poor as they want everyone to believe. I know these figures are not exact if anyone haves them I would love to see them. Mechanics : AA wants MRO rates for their airline mechanics, what they don't tell you is they don't want to out source that work. Quaility goes way down : turn times go up : reliability goes out the window, they loose control of alot of things. I have talked to several reps for airlines outsourcing their work and it is a nightmare. A/C comes out of a check a spends a week or 2 working the bugs out before revenue flights begin. When was the last time you heard AA ever say we were doing good do you really believe we would still be in bussiness if things were as dire as they always are crying. I JUST WANT THE TRUTH !
I JUST WANT THE TRUTH
- Thread starter patriot00
- Start date
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,395
What you fail to realize patriot is AA doesn't care about QUALITY or RELIABILITY. Take a peek at the DOT rankings now and then and you will understand. Or I should say, take a look at the bottom of the rankings and see who consistently holds down that spot.
floatingon9
Member
- Mar 10, 2010
- 39
- 1
That would be AA!!!!!!! I'm so dang proud at doing my part, to keep us at the bottom!!
Saying that AA doesn't care about quality or reliability is saying that YOU, the employees, don't care about those things. The front line people are ultimately the ones whose performance is reflected in those rankings, so I'd look in a mirror before casting too much blame elsewhere.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
FrequentFlyerCA,
Trust me, employees care about quality and reliability. Look in a mirror you ask? I do every morning and see someone who respects his profession. I see someone who was lied to when the chant of "shAAred sAAcrifice" was being used by management in order to convince me to "burden" my share of the pain to keep from having the dreaded Vermont Plan implemented. But low and behold... nearly 7+ years later the items AA wanted in the Vermont Plan have nearly been achieved if this ta goes through.
You talk about quality and reliability? How about respect? How about my giving up over $100,000.00 in pay and benefits in the "shAAred sAAcrifice" experiment and then having a check for $116.00 and a $100,000.00 Grand Candy Bar handed to me recently by management in order to celebrate my "shAAred sAAcrifice"?
But back to the title of this thread. If AA has enough to pay $4.7 MILLION dollars to executives they have enough to pay me.
According to FWAAA, profits used to repay debt aren't added to the "plus" side of the balance sheet - at least I believe that's what he said - Generally Accepted Accounting Practices (GAAP).
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Oh but Ken, you are missing the point! $4.7M divided among the corporate elite is nothing compared to the hundreds of millions that they say would cost the company should they restore what they took from the lowly employees.
So what's a few mil between executive friends?
They feel our pain, but they say the company is far from being out of the woods.
But they feel executive pain more and would not want to lose all the key talent.
The defenders want us to sympathize that the execs didn't get what they should have and how they make less than their peers at other companies.
And of course, the remind us how lucky we are to have jobs and if we don't like it we could leave!
And make no mistake, should this concessionary TA get voted in, the company will be in an even better position.
They will be the envy of the industry for winning a concessionary deal worse than a bankruptcy judge imposed contract...ALL WITHOUT FILING FOR BANKRUPTCY!
You're on the right track. You don't have to have profits from operations to change the cash and debt numbers of a business. AA paid down some of its debt since 2002 not with profits but instead by selling billions of dollars of new stock and selling billions of dollars worth of non-core assets (some might call it furniture-burning) like AA's stakes in Orbitz, Hotwire, ARINC, the investment division, etc. Additionally, some get confused by the "net debt" comparisons. The net debt drops every time the cash balance rises yet no new debt is added, and that's the bulk of the improvement since 2002. The cash balance has grown due to the stock sales and asset sales discussed above.
I wrote an exhausitive post detailing these numbers (and the apparent debt improvement) a while back, but the new board software search software is not as useful to me as the old system, and I've been unable to locate it.
To Hopeful: to paraphrase one of your common refrains, the executives could work for free yet the company still would not have the hundreds of millions of dollars necessary to pay for "restore" yet alone "restore and more."
The good news is that unit revenue appears to be recovering - I wouldn't want to sign a concessionary contract right now. Better to wait another quarter or two and then demand raises - when the company may actually be reporting profits. Profitable companies can easily increase compensation of 50,000+ rank and file but companies that lose a billion plus each year face more challenges when employees demand substantial increases.
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,395
FrequentFlierCA, How does it feel now that you are short handed and have to do work that two and sometimes three people were doing. How does it feel to be towing ten, twenty thousand pounds of material behind you and your equipment brakes down in the path of taxiing aircraft therefore causing delays and jeopardizing someones safety. How does it feel to know they are pushing a contract that puts your job at risk. If you can't answer these questions first hand Flier, then maybe you need to put down the mimosa and look in the mirror before making statements you clearly are not qualified to make! Bottom line Flier, I do a good job with the tools that are provided. The cuts have drastically handicapped myself and all employees and that is a REFLECTION of the leadership at the top.
You know Flier, it's funny how we are the "front line employees" when it comes to customer satisfaction and rankings, but it's management who saved this company and kept it from the horrors of bankruptcy.
I'd agree that it wasn't just management who saved the company from bk. It was everyone. Fact is that everyone took cuts in 2003, whether union card carriers or not.
It's never been a surprise to me that executives make more than mechanics. I don't have a problem with that, but I do want my share of the pie to get bigger. Once the pie actually gets bigger, at least.
It's never been a surprise to me that executives make more than mechanics. I don't have a problem with that, but I do want my share of the pie to get bigger. Once the pie actually gets bigger, at least.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
No one has ever complained that an executive earned more that their underlings.
The problem is that when the company looks to cut labor costs, they don't include the executive elite in their figures.
They go after the people that can ill afford the paycuts and prey on us with fear mongering and threats.
AA is the poster child for class warfare.
FWAAA, Here is the best part of your post, and its worth repeating again and again:
The good news is that unit revenue appears to be recovering - I wouldn't want to sign a concessionary contract right now. Better to wait another quarter or two and then demand raises - when the company may actually be reporting profits.
If you go to the Yahoo AMR stock quote page, and click on Earnings Estimates, you will see that the Street expects .08 or .09/per share in Net Profits for this Qtr, and .64/per share in Net Profits for the 3rd Qtr.
Of course the bean-counters can always take a special charge to show that AMR is in the red. But, there may be too much profit to hide that way.
The mula will flow like lava out of a volcano?
The pie has gotten bigger, and there are less people (50.000) who need to get a piece. The company wants you to keep accepting less while the Executives and everyone except for the employees, get more.
Remember your wages, and everyone elses come out of the revenue which has increased dramatically since 2003.
In 2008 they took in nearly $24 billion, in 2009 they took in around $20 billion, in 2003 when there were a lot more of us they took in around $17.5 billion.
Like the employees have been doing the last seven years.
Which means that the Financial Institutions that bought that stock have confidence in the company.
And we could all work for free and the company could still not be profitable.
I agree 100%, should have stopped right there.
Thats why they make the big bucks. They get their increases regardless of how much they lose, why should we accept anything different?
To the Yes Voters: Don't decide on that YES until you catch up on upcoming events. Like AMR earnings reports. Hey don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself with this link to Zacks.
here is the link....click on this,
Zacks AMR Stock Earnings Estimates[/font
size="4"]The Co. wants to lower costs by convincing us about a doom and gloom future so they can compete. How about this doom and gloom with AMR 3rd Qtr. profits in the hundreds of millions?
And what will the AMR stock price be in a couple of months? A hell of a lot higher!
Mgmt bone-us money is based on the stock price. So if you think that your nice 6% TA bonus is fine now, just wait for the money to flow into the coffers of upper mgmt. Do your really think they would be satisfied with a measly 6% bonus? I say HELL NO! 6% is peanuts to them, and they will be making up for losses due to inflation too, all the while we lowly peasant grunt knuckle-dragger workers pay out the kazoo.[/size]
Check out the estimates for the 3rd Qtr of this year. Its about $230 million in net profit. That will pose a challenge to the bean-counters, as they try to hide some profits with special charges and write-downs for misc. items.
For this last Qtr ending on June 30, It may be easy for them to write-down $26 million, but a lot harder when there are hundreds of million in profits to hide.
The report date will probably be a couple of weeks away. but we will know for sure way before the TA voting begins.
At the ocean beach, you have an ebb tide and a flow tide. As they say, the tide is turning on AMR losses. Profits will start to flow, as all the analysts predict.
Let's hope that the flow tide has no smelly TA in it, like BP oil slick, nasty pollution.
For the Yes Voters out there, get your head out of the sand.
There is NO reason to take concessions when profits are in the near future.
Just shout out this slogan:
I am mad as hell, and am not going to take anymore BS...... Concession Stand Closed.
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